Are you discrimination against old people or just old pope?
I really think being the Pope is a daunting job. This job may be a better fit for a slightly younger person. (Just like many Americans do not like a President being too old, because it is a demanding job also.)
Just a thought: Is it because a person can be “wise” (or being perceived by many as being wise) when he has had a lot of life experience?
I found it somewhat hilarious that Trump labeled Jeb Bush as someone who lacks energy. (It seems this Pope does not like Trump even if he acts as if he were full of energy, maybe because he is a “symbol” of the bad side of capitalism.)
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Why is it often the case that the Pope is so old
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Probably a few reasons…
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Popes are elected by cardinals and typically is a cardinal…altho that’s not req’d.
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A bishop is usually pretty established and well-known when he’s named a cardinal. I think Cardinal Avery Dulles was a recent rare priest who became a cardinal w/o ever have been a bishop. BTW…Cardinal Dulles was the son of John Dulles for which Washington Dulles Airport is named.
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bishops tend to be Archbishops (bishops of large cities like Chicago, NY, etc) when they’re named Cardinal, therefore they’ve been “promoted up the ladder” over many decades.
It would be difficult for a young person to be named Pope…just too many years of experience needed.
@saintfan I attended the mass. Lots of people, including jonri, took photos, but most people did so reverently. Most of the photos were taken during the procession and recession, Cardinal Egan’s post-mass remarks and, yes, during the Pope’s homily. (It was in Spanish. Many of us could not understand what he was saying. A translation was projected on the screens, but parts of it were very poorly done and at times the translation was close to gibberish.) I wasn’t consciously thinking of it, but I was a long way away from the altar and thinking back, I don’t think a single flash went off in my field of vision during the consecration, i.e., the most sacred part of the mass.
And the Pope’s smile when 18,000+ people began spontaneously chanting “Papa Francisco!” in unison was something I’ll always remember. He seemed genuinely surprised and moved.
Off topic I know, but Cardinal Dulles was an amazing man and his journey to Catholicism was unusual to say the least. He entered Harvard College as an agnostic and graduated as a devout Catholic.One day, he had a sudden, simple experience which convinced him that God did in fact exist. And, convinced that God existed, he began to pray. He decided to study theology systematically. He read various books. One day he stumbled into a Catholic book store. He asked the manager to recommend some books. She did. He read them. He came back and asked for more recommendations. This went on for some time. He became convinced that Catholicism made more sense intellectually than the faith in which he was raised.
He returned to the book store. This time, he asked the book store owner for a favor. Could she introduce him to a priest? He had decided to convert to Catholicism, but he didn’t know how. Not only did he not know any priests, but as far as he knew, the book store owner was the only Catholic he knew.
When Cardinal Dulles told the story, he did it in such a self-deprecating way that the audience invariably laughed. His was certainly an unusual conversion.
I’m sure none of them would say they put profit before humanity, but nevertheless, there have been many popes of the modern era who have put the finances or power of the Church before humanity. The actions during WWII come to mind. A recent example is the sexual abuse scandals, where the reputation of the Church and the safely of the priests have been protected at the expense of children.
speaking of exclusively of profit, there’s the Vatican Bank. This is just such a huge scandal it’s hard to comprehend its scope. The Vatican had turned a blind eye for a long time on the criminal activity involving huge sums of money. I was listening to an interview with a church historian the other day who was saying that in his opinion one of the reasons (that’s one of several) Benedict resigned was the Vatican Bank. Benedict had a review done after some of the scandal came to light. The results of the study were so daunting that this guy said what most of us didn’t realize is that in that famous picture of the two meeting for the first picture of 2 popes, there is a huge white container on the table between them and he said that was the report on the Bank.
One of the first things Francis did was to get rid of a lot of the bank managers, including very highly placed priests. There was so much money involved that was corrupt / illegal, including Mafia, drug gangs money laundering, etc. The guy being interviewed said that the priests at the bank fought back under the table, and one of the things they did was circulate a rumor that Francis’ new manager who was supposed to clean up the bank was gay. When reporters asked Francis about this rumor was when Framcis said about homosexuality “Who am I to judge?” With this response, Framcis not only opened up to being more understanding towards gays but the message he was also sending was that he was not going to let anyone deter him from cleaning up the bank.
There were also cardinals and bishops who lived in greedy splendor and forgot entirely the mission of the Church. Francis has been relentless in getting rid of them. Priests are like the rest of us and want to get anead. All Francis had to do was demote a few bishops and cardinals who were spending more time choosing million dollar homes than they were in ministering to their flocks, and the message comes out loud and clear.
Francis appears to be not only a caring pastor but a really great manager.
Speaking of profit… In the true spirit of commercialism, some companies rush to capitalize on the Pope’s visit! Lol.
http://www.lenox.com/pope-francis-commemorative-plate-2015/862299
Add Pope’s bobbing head or lollypops with Pope’s picture on it! I am afriad to look closely.
Regarding the discussion about “why are popes so old?”
John Paul II was the exception–he was elected pope in his 50’s. He was a very active man (skier, for example), and because he was pope for so long, it was noticeable when old age inevitably caught up with him.
My dad is four months younger than the pope, and still working as an engineering professor. He travels all over the world, lecturing about polymer concrete. I don’t know how he does it. He’s finally slowing down a little, but I still have a hard time keeping up with him.
He had Parkinson’s too. And was shot. And lived through WWII in not so great conditions for nutrition or health care.
It’s the top job in the corporation, elected by ‘peers’. Who are they going to pick, the brand new priest from Kansas or one of their own? Most priests spend their 20’s in college, getting a first degree, then entering the seminary, then maybe getting a masters or phd. Then they start on their careers, most being sent to smaller or rural parishes or to Rome for more study, moving up the ranks to a bigger parish or job in archdiocese, etc. Most have a lot to learn about the business of running the parish, teaching, research, etc. It’s much like politics where the young (or not so young) wannabe runs for city council, and then a state office, maybe a seat in congress takes 2-3 attempts. Look at the group running for president now - a few younger guys, most in their 60’s.
Read about Pope Pius who was pope during WWII. He tried to protect people but when the catholic bishops spoke out in Holland at the start of the war, hundreds killed the next day. The church had to tread carefully.
Completely disagree with this…
I think Pope Francis and President Xi Jinping are surprisingly similar, both personally modest, tough on corruption, yet had the determination to get to the top of a giant power structure.
I’m a terribly cynical person and not even a Catholic, but I find this humble man to be very inspiring. I’m cheering for him.
^Many people feel the same way. That’s why they are lining up on the streets to get a glimpse of him. I find it interesting how people get enthusiastic about idealistic people, Pope, Bernie Sanders, etc. I think we are fed up.
@hayden, that is a very interesting story about the Vatican Bank. Props to Pope Benedict XVI for getting the ball rolling. Who is the church historian who is your source?
I have to say I’m surprised that there hasn’t been criticism of the Pope addressing Congress from separation of Church and State advocates. There usually is push back from some when there is even the slightest hint of mixing anything of the religious nature with government.
I am a separation of church and state person, and while I can’t answer for anyone but myself I will try to do that. So many of our elected leaders are already trying to govern from a place of legislating their religious conviction. The horses are well out of the barn on that. As strange as it sounds even to my own ears, Pope Francis’ remarks are a reminder to reign it in some. They seem to be more of a check on rampant invocation of religion than anything, or at least selective application. Currently IMO many elected leaders use their faith as a cudgel in judgement rather than as an instrument of compassion.
Seems like the Catholic Church hierarchy’s views on engagement in American politics may have changed–anyone remember back to 35 years ago when John Paul II told MA Congressman Robert Drinan (a priest) that Drinan had to quit the priesthood or Congress–he couldn’t do both. John Paul II cited a regulation that prohibited priests from running. Drinan decided not to run again. Don’t know if this is apocryphal but Nancy Pelosi joked that the Pope probably disliked the results of his edict because Drinan’s seat was taken over by Barney Frank (now retired) who is gay and Jewish.
I’m in favor of separation of church and state, but it’s on the state side, not the church side. No government should tell me how to believe, whether to believe or how to practice my faith. I have no problem with people of faith talking about how their faith informs their political views.