@Cardinal Fang - it’s happened more than once with Catholic Charities and the DC government. Once seemed to be mostly about not wanting to let same sex parents be foster or adoptive parents. Later it was about them not wanting to give benefits to same sex spouses.
I was looking for a reference to your claim that Catholic Charities said it could no longer serve the homeless if/after DC legalized same sex marriage.
OK, so they said they might not be able to renew their contracts with the city. DC did adopt same sex marriage, and Catholic charities continues to operate homeless shelters, so as it turned out the threat was empty. What is the big deal here? Any business is free not to renew contracts for any reason.
What greenwitch is talking about is religious groups (it isn’t just the church), that get contracts with governments to do social services, such as outreach to homeless people, soup kitchens, adoption and so forth. They hire people to do these contracts, they hire social workers and doctors and cooks at the kitchens and so forth, and the question here is if you have a public contract, do they have to abide by anti discrimination laws? I suspect what Catholic Charities was arguing that if for example, they had to recognize same sex couples for things like benefits, it went against their religious beliefs, and that if they were forced to recognize same sex couples they would rather get out of the business then being forced to comply.
Generally, when a group gets contracts from the state, they are supposed to abide by anti discrimination laws, once you take the government dime their laws apply (and keep in mind these are religious affiliated groups, that are non profits that are not run directly by the church, and who hire those not of their faith). There was a similar instance several years ago when the Methodist Church in Ocean Grove, NJ refused to rent a gazebo on the boardwalk to a lesbian couple having a civic union ceremony, they argued their religious beliefs didn’t allow that…they lost, because the church had gotten green acres money from the town and tax abatements on the boardwalk in return for making the boardwalk publicly accessible, and once they take state and local money, they had to abide by anti discrimination law, if they owned the boardwalk privately and had no government money, they could of done what they did.
In Boston Catholic Charities stopped doing adoption services when the city told them they couldn’t discriminate against same sex couples willing to adopt.
These last few pages have been interesting. From my circle, the only objections I’ve seen have been from conservative Catholics. My liberal (and mostly atheist or agnostic) friends are mostly on his side… well, until the whole support for no contraception thing but that’s also because most of my friends are pretty hardcore repro rights/justice people.
I’m obviously not a Catholic, and I obviously disagree strongly with the Pope on many things, including reproductive rights and LGBT issues. But I like him anyway. Sometimes the perfect can be the enemy of the good, and in the areas where he is able to effect positive change in the Church’s message (or at least a change in tone and emphasis), I believe he’s done so. Certainly more than his recent predecessors. I take my cue from some of my lapsed Catholic friends who feel more welcome in the Church than they have in decades, and are very happy about his emphasis on social justice – including his mention of Dorothy Day.
I think ‘conservative Catholics’ can be split to talking about those that are ‘fundamental’ or those that don’t like change. None of the folks I know that are conservative (including home schooling and also like going to Latin Masses) say anything bad about any of the Popes in our generations.
A guy came to our Sunday adult ed and said he didn’t agree with Vatican II (which we were covering). So he looked to be seeing what was said from some of the documents we were covering. Our leader told me one-on-one that our priest gets hate mail, probably from guys like this one. Generally speaking, being Catholic is being in a religion with a huge history and from the outside seems to not coincide with ‘modern’ thinking. People complain about various Bishops and other church leaders. To me, almost all of these people, both men and women, give up a lot in their lives to be part of ordained or religious, and deserve respect from people that call themselves Catholic. Our Bishop has really taken to heart Pope Francis’ message - there was a Service Day in Honor of Pope Francis in Birmingham (with Mayor proclamation). Bishop was in work shirt and jeans like other volunteers working - and he probably is in his early to mid 70’s.
OK, I heard that too but it might be a hoax. She is not Catholic, and in fact her religious views probably indicate that all Catholics, including the Pope, as likely to go to hell for not being true believers.
There are no photographs of the meeting, and supposedly they are being “held by the Vatican”. Why would the Vatican do that?
I still want to see photos. From the Vatican’s language, it sounds like they are not thrilled, like maybe they were duped. Who knows. If it’s true, it does take Francis down a peg. Visiting the “no contraceptives for you” nuns organization did too.
And the original source totally lied about a photo from Peru that was a crowd rallying for Kim, when it was from some other rally last year for something else.
Eh, I think he realized that he’d annoyed conservatives quite a lot, and needed to even up the balance a little bit. Note that he also met with Castro.
We get so wired up when it comes to gay, abortion, and a few other issues. We demand a 100% when it comes to hot button issues. It’s like NRA. They have to have all guns. If we could say it’s good enough, there will be no harm done. I find myself liking Carson for him saying confederate flags are ok.
If Kim Davis’ parents are Catholic but she is not, in part she is a ‘loose cannon’ which I think the Vatican realizes - so not confirming/denying, not saying anything. Nothing wrong with the Pope privately meeting with her. I do not think she handled her position correctly. Just as I don’t think AL Chief Justice Moore did years ago when he over-stepped his power boundaries; surprising turnaround that he is ‘back in the saddle’ as Chairman of AL Supreme Court.