<p>As a Tigers fan, I’m happy to see Texas fall by the wayside. They’re the one team with deep enough talent to scare me in the AL. Oakland has been playing lights-out baseball, but I think Detroit has more talent overall and in a short series that should make a difference. We’ve got the best pitcher (Verlander) and best hitter (Miguel Cabrera) in baseball.</p>
<p>And Romanigypsyeyes, I don’t think it’s entirely that the Tigers underperformed this year; a lot of people just had unrealistic expectations. They went out and got Prince Fielder who ended up having a great year, but he was essentially just replacing Victor Martinez who had a great year last year and missed this entire season due to injuries. And a bunch of players had career years last year: Verlander, Doug Fister, Valverde, Benoit, Peralta, Avila, to name a few. It was unrealistic to expect all of them to perform at that same high level this year; not the manager’s fault, it’s just reversion to the mean. The good news is that the starting pitchers are all healthy and all finding their groove when the money’s on the line, and Valverde shows signs of settling back into a successful and even dominant closer. If these guys pitch as well as they’re capable of, I like our chances against anyone.</p>
<p>The “infield fly rule” call in the Braves/Cardinals game is one of the worst calls I’ve seen in quite a few years. Right up there with Jim Joyce robbing Andres Galarraga of his perfect game. I understand the umpires are human beings and are going to make mistakes, but both of those calls were completely pathetic, made worse by the failure of the “umpire huddle” to get the correct call made. There’s no way to know if it would’ve changed the final outcome of the game, but it sure would’ve been nice to see what actually might’ve come of it. But in the meantime…GO TIGERS!! MIGGY FOR MVP!!</p>
<p>Wolverine,
And it wasn’t even called by the 3rd base umpire but by the left field ( read additional for the playoffs) umpire. I watched the press conference after the game with two of the umpires and Joe Torre and Joe Garagiola Jr who are the MLB VP’s in charge. They tried to argue that the call was correct and made to protect the runners. If that’s the case, it should have been made ** immediately ** not a split second before the ball landed . By calling it so late it puts the runners in more peril as to whether to go halfway in case it lands. Now they have to stay on the base and advance at their own peril…While Basketball, hockey and football have no problem going to the videotape to correct a bad call, baseball is obstinate about the human angle, with few exceptions ( homers fair/foul) and only because of some egregious errors in the past.</p>
<p>There are way too many factors in baseball. If you want to talk about a nightmare, go there. You would have umpire judgment like crazy and people would go nuts.</p>
<p>jandjdad…I agree with you about the timing of the call. If they had immediately called the infield fly rule as the rulebook states, opinions would still differ on whether it was warranted or not but at least the umpiring crew wouldn’t look so much like a bunch of clowns. If you watch the replay where you can see the left field umpire, he doesn’t even raise his hand until AFTER the shortstop veers away from the ball. That’s EXACTLY the kind of situation the infield fly rule is designed to prevent. A fielder “accidentally” allows a ball to drop while the runners are holding their bases, then turns a double or triple play. That’s why it needs to be called immediately…to avoid any confusion or deceit. There’s no way the Cardinals players can claim that they let the ball drop because of the ump’s call. The umps flat out blew it. Shame on MLB for trying to justify the whole thing. Invoking the rule itself was questionable at best, but the application of it was laughable. Reminds me of a Monday night football game a few weeks back…</p>
<p>Sorry Wolverine, there is precedent to this ruling. I don’t have video available to me, but I have read numerous sites that indicate MLB has said there was a call earlier in the year that sets this up…</p>
<p>hops…Here’s the pertinent text from the rulebook. As I said, the definition of “ordinary effort” can be argued by those with differing opinions. The outfield grass itself isn’t a boundary of any sort, thus it’s a judgment call based on the ump’s determination of the effort the infielder will have to exert. What shouldn’t be open for debate is the fact that it took him several seconds to make that determination, and it only happened AFTER the shortstop pulled off the ball. Unacceptable action by “professional” umpires.</p>
<p>IF fly rule can be a tough call with lots of factors involved, wind conditions, how far the IF has to go, ect. I see a lot of posts saying that the call has to be made immediately. I don’t agree completely because the umpire has to determine exactly where the fielder is in relation to the ball… and that can’t be determine sometimes until the ball is coming down.</p>
<p>Geeps, It’s a quote from the rule book that it has to be made immediately. The reasoning is that it then protects the runner by allowing them to stay safely on the base without being forcing to advance or go half way. If you call the IF late, the runner is already halfway to protect himself and it hurts the runner because now he has lost the benefit of the rule and is stuck between two bases instead of being able to safely retreat or stay on the original base.</p>
<p>“immediately” does not mean as soon as the ball is hit. From above, it takes some time for the umpire to determine when and if it “seems apparent”. Again, that depends on many factors such as where the ball is hit, where the fielders are situated, ect.</p>
<p>geeps…You’re correct, it doesn’t mean as soon as the ball is hit. But look at the video. The ball came down about 2 feet from where the shortstop was when he veered away, and the ball was coming STRAIGHT DOWN!! There’s absolutely no reason a professional umpire needed to wait that long to make the determination.</p>
<p>After watching the replay that shows both the umpire and the fielders, it seems more likely to me that the shortstop pulled back after he heard the umpire make the call. He may have thought (the stadium was very loud) that what he heard was the left fielder calling him off. Mike Shannon, the Cardinals radio announcer, offered that theory anyway. You can see the umpire’s arm go up, then the short stop backs off.</p>
<p>If that is correct, then without the call the Braves would have had runners at 1st and 2nd with 2 outs - the catch would have been made, the runners would not have tried to steal, and of course the batter would have been out. As it was, the Braves ended up with runners at 2nd and 3rd with 2 out, so they actually ended up a little better off. </p>
<p>Of course, we’ll never really know if that’s why he backed off, or whether he otherwise would have made the catch.</p>
<p>Earlier in the game the shortstop called off the second baseman on a pop fly, and caught it even though the center fielder had a decent shot at it, and may have even tried to call for it. Maybe someone talked to him between innings about letting the outfielders get those if they call them. It’s baseball 101 to do that, but he is a rookie just called up in September, so he could still be learning how, at the big league level, his teammates really can get to those.</p>
<p>The fans throwing stuff reminded me of when the Red Wings were terrible. Marcel Dionne scored - he was the only player out there working hard - and the fans threw stuff on the ice for 45 minutes. That was a signal to the team that they needed to change. The fans in Atlanta were signaling to MLB that they need to get their collective heads out of their tradition-bound butts and be more responsive about bad calls. Time and after time I still see an umpire make a bad call and the crew refuse to touch, perhaps because that’s not protocol. Well bleep protocol. That was a terrible call and they should have overturned it. The infield fly rule not only didn’t apply to where the ball was, it’s aimed at helping the offensive team not the defense.</p>
<p>Success in the playoffs requires at least 2 hot pitchers and a bullpen. Hitting in the playoffs isn’t the same; you can see the level of concentration ratchet up, so you have to treat every hitter as though he could cost you. That puts strain on the pitchers - and defense. Two hot starters and a bullpen plus some lucky hits and you get somewhere.</p>
<p>^ umpires these days are much better at getting together to get the call right. In the old days, once an ump made a call, that was it. They would never ask other umps for help.</p>
<p>momoffFJandL–my H and S were watching, and that was exctly what they thought. It was clear he was lined up to catch the ball, and then pulled off. The Braves actually were in better shape than if h’ed caught it, which he could have. So there was no miscall.</p>
<p>garland…The Braves weren’t better off than if the shortstop had caught the ball, they were in exactly the same situation. Runners at first and second with 2 out, as opposed to bases loaded with one out which is what they would’ve had if the tardy infield fly rule hadn’t occurred. If you’re thinking that the shortstop veered off because of the umpire’s call, that’s not the case. No one who’s ever played baseball would let the ball drop simply because the IFFR was invoked, because the ball is still considered LIVE and if it takes a funny bounce the runners can advance at their own risk. The defensive player will always catch the ball if possible to maintain control of it and keep the runners at their current position. The shortstop veered off because he heard the left fielder approaching. The left fielder DID NOT call him off…you could see by the look on his face when the ball dropped that he also thought the shortstop was going to catch it. Again…watch the video. The umpire’s arm doesn’t go up until the shortstop veers off. No one on that field with the exception of the left field umpire had any idea that the IFFR had been invoked until after the play was over. Just look at the faces and reactions of the Cardinals players.</p>
<p>Again…while I personally think calling the IFFR was questionable based on the play itself I can see where others would say it was understandable. The lateness of the call is the biggest problem, followed closely by the typical refusal to admit he botched the timeliness.</p>