Potential Student: UH/UTA/UTD/Baylor/TAMU/CWRU [TX resident, pre-med, biology or related]

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My DD got accepted to multiple schools (Native Texas) and she wanted to stay closer to Houston and focusing on pre med. That said the details are as follows and appreciate your inputs on college and course major selection. Thanks in advance.

UH 11k/yr Biology

UT Austin 13.5k/yr Biology

UT Dallas 11.5/yr Biomedical Sciences

Baylor 42k/yr Health Science Studies

Texas A&M 13k/yr Biology

Case Western 46k/yr Cognitive Science

Tuition isn’t a big concern, but would like to focus on achieving high GPA with a bit less course load, shadowing and medical facilities nearby are important as well with research opportunities. She is leaning towards UH/UTD/Case Western as her top choices!

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If she chooses less expensive, would she be able to have more money to use for medical school if she gets in? Although Texas public medical schools are relatively inexpensive for Texas residents, the cost is still substantial.

If they are approximately equally preferred in most respects, wouldn’t the two much less expensive options be obvious choices?

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Not sure how this student can take less course load, and fulfill all the requirements for graduation and their major, and for the required courses for medical school applicants.

She can take the required courses for medical school applicants at any of the colleges on this list.

While you are not concerned about costs for undergrad, please understand that there are new lower loan limits for federally funded college loans. Medical school students can only borrow $50,000 a year in federally funded loans. Most medical schools will cost in excess of that amount by a lot by the time your student gets there.

At this point, I would put medical school on the back burner. Pick a college where your student will be happy to be for four years. Happy students tend to do better in college. Consider affordability as maybe some undergrad savings can be used for post undergrad studies.

If this is the case…why is CWRU still on the list to be considered (disclaimer…I’m from Cleveland and CWRU is one of my personal favorites…but not for someone who wants to stay closer to Houston).

Your daughter has some wonderful and closer to home options. Congratulations to her!:tada:

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Eventually it is a saving for her, but she is looking for that shadowing and research opportunity, potentially best environment on campus. UH actually is the better choice out of all when it comes to cost, largest facility near by. I am not sure about the culture though!

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When I mentioned less work load, I was referring to comparative workload across these three schools. I did hear Case Western is edging closer to Ivy league and not sure if the work load substantially high than the previous years! This is uncertain to me.

I agree happy students tend to better in college. The only reason she is considering CWRU is the environment and medical facilities offered on/near campus. Likewise UTD has facilities near by and UH got TMC which is one of the largest hostpitals.

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UH is not in the safest part of Houston and is known to be a commuter school.

IMO, UT is your best option.

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She can commute to UH after first year and can stay home if she prefers daily commute after 1st year. UH is 25 miles away from home, but she prefers UH/UTDallas over UTAustin.

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What kind of school culture is she looking for? You’re not going to experience much school culture if you’re commuting back and forth every day driving 25 miles each way which can take a long time, given how terrible Houston traffic is.

My daughter goes to Rice and I told her to avoid going to any events at UH because IMO, it’s right next to a dangerous part of town.

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Can you afford med school too - could be many hundreds of thousands more. It’s not just undergrad.

I don’t think you can focus on a high GPA other than being kick butt. All schools send kids to med school - so the entire - I can do better here is silly. It’s all relative. And just because you have facilities nearby doesn’t mean you can shadow, etc.

The first I’d drop is CWRU - and funny, it’s a finalist. Why?

I mean all are great schools. Most would say, if you got into A&M, go there. If she wants to be close to Houston, then it’s UH, followed by A&M, and Baylor. Arlington will be commuter. Dallas is just finding itself.

What type of experience do you seek ? Dorm, sports and more ? What major does she want - I see three. Start with that.

Edit - I thought UT A was Arlington. Most say UT for Austin. And you do say it in the text - just not the title.

Funny most would say go to UT or A&M but if that’s not her speed, then it’s not her speed.

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Don’t conflate rigor with rank/rep. Some kids, like mine at a regional public, spend every night in the library until the wee hours. There was a recent Ivy student on here saying how their school lacked challenge.

Many less reputed schools have rigor and many reputed schools may have less. It likely depends on the major/ professors and a students acclimation to specific subjects. I would expect organic chem to be a kick your a$$ class everywhere.

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I would drop Case Western due to cost. Medical school is expensive and I would want to save money during undergrad. Also keep in mind the changes to student loans.

I cannot comment on UH/UTD. I can comment on UT Austin. That would be my pick, but I am not the one going to college and you indicated that it is not one of her top choices.

Choose a lower cost school that she likes. If possible, put any extra money toward med school. She can take the required classes for medical school at any of these colleges. Keep in mind that many students shadow at home, starting with their pediatrician.

Also keep in mind that having medical facilities nearby may or may not mean that all students are welcome to shadow or volunteer. Some are more welcoming than others, some have an interview process in place for volunteering (they do not choose everybody) etc. This is something to look into.

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My opinion…as a “premed”, she is going to find the work challenging and similar no matter where she goes. Simply put, there is no easier organic chemistry course. As a premed, she will be in classes with other high performing students. AND working harder in undergrad school will prepare her for the intense very hard work of medical school. @WayOutWestMom

WRT to shadowing and medical opportunities…these can also be done during summers and school breaks. In addition many (maybe most) medical school students have taken a glide year after undergraduate graduation to beef up the things they need for a more competitive medical school application.

There are a bunch of FAQ threads in the premed forum, and I would strongly urge you and your daughter to read them.

If we are voting, I vote for UT Austin and UT Dallas..in that order.

This can be done during school breaks and summers…or during a glide year. She also needs to volunteer with underprivileged groups. There are opportunities to do that just about everywhere (unfortunately) and that can be done while she is at college.

@WayOutWestMom what did I miss?

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There is a lot of work regardless of which school she chooses.

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Your daughter should pick the undergrad that offers her the best mix of of fit (campus culture suits her), costs (because med school is very expensive, even in TX), and opportunities.

By opportunities, I mean things beyond just research and mentoring, but the opportunity to explore other careers and areas of interest.

A national study of students at 124 US universities found that only 17-18% of freshmen premeds finished all the pre-reqs.

Some dropped out because they found the work too challenging. More dropped out because they found other careers that were a better fit for the interests and personal strengths. Others dropped out of pre-med because they decided they didn’t want to sacrifice their 20s and 30s to medical training. (It’s not just the 4 years of med school a pre-med needs to consider, it’s the 3-12+ years of residency and fellowship that comes afterwards.)

IOW I think you should take pre-med out of the equation and allow her to choose the school that has the best fit for her.

(And as an aside, your daughter needs to learn how to work and study effectively while carrying a heavy workload. In med school she’ll effectively be taking 24-28 credits of science classes at the same time. Add in labs, add in mandatory group projects, add in continuing specialty shadowing, add in specialty exploratory clubs and activities, add in practicums (learning the hands-on skills doctors need), add in the expected continuing volunteering… you get the idea. She will be very busy. And the workload only gets heavier in residency.)

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OP- you are getting great advice from folks who are really savvy about med school admissions.

I am not- disclaimer- but I will add that it is easy (but misguided) to conflate “close to many academic medical centers” with “easy to find shadowing opportunities”. The top academic medical centers in the US have their own policies and standards and requirements for undergraduates. Remember- they have actual patients and HIPAA and med students and residents, and their needs come first. Covid has changed the way many medical facilities deal with extra people roaming the halls– and I don’t see many of those policies shifting back. I know so many people whose volunteer work in hospitals (including shadowing) have been shifted to non-patient work (still very valuable, but NOT patient facing). Doing data entry for the upcoming hospital gala is important work– but it won’t “count” for med school, and it won’t help a college kid figure out if medicine is actually what they want to pursue.

The only young person I know in recent memory who had to choose between several fantastic med school admissions had a McGyver type experience on the application. Started as a hospice volunteer (extensive training); was invited by a geriatrician who met this undergrad at the hospice facility, was so impressed that he asked “why don’t you shadow me in my office next semester?”. That led to inclusion on a research project on opioids and dementia. Every single med school interview asked the same question- “how did you decide to volunteer at a hospice facility?”

No hospitals involved at all. Volunteer with vulnerable population- check. Tons of shadowing- check. Research with several physicians of different specialties which led to a peer reviewed publication- check. At no time was this undergrad “competing” with med students or MD/PhD candidates for any of these opportunities- they just came about organically from a sincere desire to see “can I handle watching people I’ve come to know die” and the answer was yes.

So I’d drop Case– too far, too expensive. And I’d try to see if your kid is really up to a long commute which sounds dreadful to me. Right now when the schoolwork is at an ebb it seems manageable, but in the middle of an intense semester the need to block off so much time in the car is likely to become a stressor.

And ALL of these colleges will be intense with a heavy workload if the goal is med school. No way around that!!!

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If I understood this correctly, Case Western would be about an extra $140,000 over four years. If you can afford to pay for Case Western in full, and you can also afford to pay a bit more than $400,000 for four years of medical school (let’s say $500,000 to be safe), and you can do this without taking on any debt and without any family hardship, then you can afford to not think about the cost of medical school. Most of us cannot afford to pay this much per child for an education.

A student really does not want to take on the full cost of medical school as debt. Even half of the cost of medical school as debt, with the parents paying the other half, is still a lot of debt.

Premed classes will be tough at any school on your list, and at pretty much any “top 200” university in the US. None of my immediate family was premed. One daughter however completed all of the required premed classes as a pre-vet student (the required undergraduate classes are the same). She is now a veterinarian. My other daughter completed most of these same required premed classes as a biology major. She is currently studying for a PhD in a biomedical field. I have heard plenty about how difficult the premed classes are, and how strong the other premed students are.

I do not think that there is any way around this. A premed student just needs to take the premed classes, work very, very hard, and do their best. A very hard earned B-, or even a C or two, in the toughest premed classes apparently does not necessarily keep a student out of medical school (nor apparently keep a student out of very good DVM programs).

Personally I would skip the two most expensive schools (Case and Baylor), choose from among the other four, and put any money saved into a bank account or 529 plan (or leave it in an already existing 529 plan, which is what we actually did) and keep any money saved in the bank for medical school.

The large majority of students who start off university thinking “premed” end up doing something else. Some students cannot keep up a medical-school-worthy GPA in the tough premed classes. Some however just find something else they would rather do. There are a lot of choices for “something else”. However, a significant number of these choices for something else do involve some form of graduate school, and having a bit of money in the bank for graduate school can be helpful regardless of what form of graduate school is chosen.

There are a lot of research opportunities at a lot of universities. However I do think this is important. This is of course one alternative to medical school that some originally premed students end up deciding is a better fit for them.

I think that I would look for the best fit among the four very good in-state options.

By the way, your prices at the in-state public options look like some merit aid might be included. Your daughter’s excellent set of acceptances overall look to me like she has done very well up to now. Congratulations!

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I agree. Are there any offerings attached to that merit aid or any special opportunities? Has your D been invited into any honors programs? That can often mean smaller classes, or a recitation section with the professor rather than a grad student, or an honors dorm with like-minded students, etc.

Or are there any special programs affiliated with any of the scholarships, like a fast-track entree to research options or mentorship opportunities?

Those are some factors that might sway me between the Texas publics; I agree with the others about the private schools unless medical school and private school costs are affordable for your family without loans.

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I mentioned earlier that there will be a lot of work at all of these schools, however, it is important to understand that this is difficult to objectively measure.

For example, some students have an “easier” time (or harder time) than others in organic chemistry. That is just reality, and these students will be at all schools.

Some students complete assignments faster than others, despite having the same work load.

Student A may think the work load for biology or cognitive science is too much and they may ultimately change their major to something that just feels better for them, while student B may think it is not too bad and they enjoy it…and both are at the same school.

Some are more focused, others may be less so. Some are always at office hours whether they need it or not, while others rarely go, etc.

Regardless of your daughter’s strengths, she/you should understand that the work load can be intense regardless of school, ability, or personal style. Add to that…sleep, meals, social life, clubs, volunteering, etc..and she will be busy.

And medical school is very intense!

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Congratulations! What amazing opportunities for your daughter. I sent a PM, but the TL;DR is that I’m impressed with CWRU, especially the course availability, advising, and support to help students succeed in a VERY RIGOROUS environment. As other have said, there are lots of local medical facilities and options for volunteering and shadowing and an on campus option for EMS.

Good luck on a tough decision!

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Thanks everyone for your guidance and feedback. I agree and understand that the out of state college is expensive though we can afford it. My DD got into UH Honors Biology as well. She also got accepted to Syracuse University Biology with a 33.5k/yr tuition. We are still waiting on Baylor Honors (there’s potential), but we aren’t considering this school.

I have suggested my DD to go over this thread and we are digesting a lot of insightful thoughts shared by every one of you. I am not sure how much value it would add for UH Honors Biology as I know the class size is not more 40, opportunity to collaborate more with the professors but ‘human situation’ is one of the subjects that may bore a student. Not an easy decision! We are reviewing and thanks again everyone!

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