Hello Parents,
I am a former academic advisor who worked with pre-health professions students (pre-med, pharmacy, PT, OT, all of them). I have seen so many students who truly had the academic ability to apply to their chosen health profession, but they basically made poor decisions along the way (picking the wrong major, taking the wrong classes, not dropping classes they were failing, and much more) or getting bad advice from well-intentioned people (parents, family, friends, even advisors) that led to a poor GPA. A poor GPA pretty much dooms your chances, because all of the programs are competitive, and why would they admit a 2.5 GPA student when they could pick the 3.5 GPA student?
I know that there are many professionals (advisors and others) who work at the university who want to help, but in my experience, their caseload was just too extremely high for them to give the attention that each student needs and deserves. And others, truthfully, either just were incompetent or didn’t care. This results in many students falling through the cracks, where some students randomly get the life-changing advice and help they need, while others unfortunately miss out.
I am trying to be pro-active in heading this off at the pass, and I think I know what parents want for the pre-health students, but I want to double-check that my ideas are correct.
So parents of pre-health professions students, what academically-related issues keeps/kept you up at night worrying about their freshman year?
What actions did/will you take on those concerns?
How satisfied are you with the academic help you and your student received from your institution?
What academic and planning help do you wish you and your student had access to?
No longer a pre-health profession parent. (Both of mine are now med students; one graduates in 2 weeks)
None. D1 was a not pre-med as a freshman (that decision came much later). D2 knew from Day 1 what was expected of pre-meds. She had a rigorous academic preparation going into college, had been attending office hours since her freshman year in high school, and pretty much had excellent self-discipline and study skills. She is also quite personable and can be very charming–so excellent people skills which helped her navigate college. She started strong at college and finished strong.
For D1–none because her parents were in the midst of life-threatening medical crisis and simply were not available to deal with anything. D2 didn’t require any action.
I don’t believe either child ever asked for academic support at their respective institutions. Both were pro-active about seeking out professors at office hours, attending recitations & labs, cultivating mentors, finding research opportunities, etc.
Neither child ever sought out any help from their pre-health professions office during any time during undergrad. One child called the advisor/advising office at her college “ignorant” and “useless”. The other felt dissed when the advisor told her she “shouldn’t bother” applying for summer research fellowships because she’d “never” get one. (She applied anyway and was accepted at 2-- both prestigious national summer fellowships in biomedical research–including one that has an acceptance rate of <5%.) She never went back again.
Individualized assistance/recommendations in selecting an appropriate list of professional programs to apply to. (Advisors are surprising ignorant about programs and program requirements/expectations that are outside their small regional geographic area.)
Thank you for your detailed response! I must say I have seen students like your two children, but they are not the norm. Kudos to you for raising such proactive and motivated children.
I am unfortunately not surprised by the lack of assistance they received from pre-health. Again, they may actually be good advisors, but in my experience their caseload is extremely high (which often leads to turnover, which means you have constant inexperienced advisors). And yes, many of them offer discouraging advice instead of encouraging.
And you are correct again with your final statement, they often know their area, but not the broader country (which I’m sure they would love to have the time to learn about, but they are so busy with everything else it can be hard to do all the things they should do).
Congratulations to you and your soon-to-be doctor!
DS is currently studying for the MCAT after maintaining good grades throughout the last three years. The key to his success was to study what he truly enjoyed (psychology), to start his first semester year with chemistry instead of doubling up and to meet with his advisor regularly. He is lucky that his school has a wonderful advisor and has helped plenty of people navigate the pre-professional route. He volunteered (clinical and non-clinical) and kept an open mind. He also would tread into SDN on occasion where he received very helpful advice from other adcoms.
I have tried to merely work on being supportive and encouraging him to go for it. It helps to know what classes are required, what important steps are needed to get into medical school and to know abotu options such as DO school (and grade replacement), as well as PA requirements.
As a parent of an OT and a PT, I lost no sleep during their respective freshman years because both had direct admit status to their graduate programs as incoming freshmen, as long as they kept their grades up and accrued the required observation hours. That is the route I recommend to any high school students I talk with who are interested in those fields. As you said, the medical programs are all very competitive with plenty of top students to fill those slots. Both went to private colleges and I think that setting helps because students don’t fall through the cracks as easily. I’ve seen several students at our state flagships who decide rather late in the game that they want to be a PT but by that time their grades in the core classes are just too low and they aren’t competitive for admissions.
We too encouraged our kids to go the direct admit route so other than keeping up grades to progress in their programs we didn’t have a lot of worries. A friend’s son is at a smaller school and is thinking about being a PA. He has tried to get some guidance on pre-reqs, application process, etc but is frustrated with the lack of knowledge that he is encountering. I’ve also encountered parents and students alike who seem surprised at how competitive some of these programs are when they go to apply-so clearly they weren’t losing sleep. Not sure if that’s lack of advising or just plain not doing their own research. Finally, I think some students look at the minimum requirements of a program but don’t think about the fact that those are just the minimums and that most accepted students will be much more qualified- giving them a false sense of grades needed in core classes.
DD2 is pre-med and a freshman at a LAC. The pre-health careers office is new but the college is not new to preparing students for the health fields and getting them accepted. There is no way she’d fall through the cracks at this institution. It also has a new agreement with a DO med school as well as 3-4 agreements with the UTK Vet and UTK Pharmacy programs. DD2 is driven. She’s established relationships with her profs and stays for office hours and post-class sessions. Similar to @hoosiermom statement, it’s important the advising is frequent, accessible, and begins at the start or before the start of freshman year.
Mizzbee states
"The key to his success was to study what he truly enjoyed (psychology), to start his first semester year with chemistry instead of doubling up and to meet with his advisor regularly. He is lucky that his school has a wonderful advisor and has helped plenty of people navigate the pre-professional route. "
This is great to hear! This is what can happen when good advice is given (and taken) and the advisor is trained and has the time to meet with the students! Thank you.
hoosiermom states:
“Both went to private colleges and I think that setting helps because students don’t fall through the cracks as easily. I’ve seen several students at our state flagships who decide rather late in the game that they want to be a PT but by that time their grades in the core classes are just too low and they aren’t competitive for admissions.”
I agree. I think one of the advantages at being at smaller private colleges is that it is harder to fall through the cracks (though it can still happen!). And you pointed out the problem I’ve seen at the state flagships that I’ve seen as well. Thanks for verifying my observations.
Illinoismom4 - I won’t copy all the relevant points I’ve observed and agree with, because I agree with all you’ve said! I’ve seen all of that as well - it used to amaze me how clueless the students themselves were about what it actually took to get into medical school (or other health professions) even though it was their stated career choice.
Knoxpatch - I feel your final statement sums it up
“it’s important the advising is frequent, accessible, and begins at the start or before the start of freshman year.”
And this is exactly what I’ve seen too many students not get at large, public institutions (again, smaller privates are different).
So that is exactly what I’m offering privately, so parents of students attending large, public institutions have a choice for advisement, instead of hoping it will get better or the students and parents having to become experts themselves.
This is all great feedback for me and any student who is looking at a health profession.
Son has just finished his second year of med school (yippee!)
So parents of pre-health professions students, what academically-related issues keeps/kept you up at night worrying about their freshman year?
~ I was worried during Fall Frosh semester because he took too many hard classes…Cell Bio, Ochem, Conversational Spanish, and Frosh Engineering courses. But, he got all A’s and I breathed a sigh of relief. After that, I was confident that he could face anything and he did.
What actions did/will you take on those concerns?
~ I didn’t have him work at all that semester. I didn’t think he should risk working the first semester of frosh year. He already had football as a distraction (he’s a fan and his school won the national championship that year…and he went to both the conference championship and the BCS championship…and I drank wine. )
How satisfied are you with the academic help you and your student received from your institution?
~ I was satisfied with both the academic help and the premed advising.
What academic and planning help do you wish you and your student had access to?
~ a microchip embedded in his head that makes him mind his momma. (just kiddin’)
What kept me awake, in all honesty was not academics, or advising, or my kid’s ability to earn the needed grades. He is smart, self motivated, and we already knew enough about the process to step in if needed.
What really kept us awake was the potential stuff that could kill a profession before it ever got started. “Please don’t drink and drive, please stay away from drugs, please walk away from all those things and people and places and actions that would prevent you from being able to pursue your dreams, please make good decisions”… That’s what kept me awake.
We’ve seen too many kids who can not get employment in their professions (not only in health professions) because of a college “drunk and disorderly” or “public intoxication” or worse on their record.
I also think people (especially eager parents) could use counseling about pushing their pre-health majors too hard and too fast. That first year, especially while taking the weeder classes, a kid really needs to just concentrate on getting the grades she needs to move on. Really, really good grades. The shadowing, the internships, the research positions … Those are all nice, but are meaningless if the kid is doing all that but pulling “B’s” or “C’s” in the pre-health classes.
(Hubby interviews for a med. school, son graduates in May Phi Beta Kappa, with highest honors. He took the MCAT last summer, scored very well, and is taking a year or two away from school to work. He needs a break. He did research in Africa for three summers, but during the school year he thoroughly enjoyed every aspect of college life.)
I have to agree with eastcoastcrazy. DS was a leader in his fraternity and I would stay up at night worrying that his chapter would get in trouble and he would be arrested or disciplined by the school. When he stepped down this January I felt like I could finally relax. I didn’t really care about cheating, though one of his friends was suspended over it and has no shot of a medical career now.
It wasn’t fear, but I will admit that I was always prepared for him to give up his med school dreams. I thought he would get tired of the extra studying, the delayed gratification, or that he might just find somehting that he loves more. Most of his friends have abandoned their plans for medical school, and tha is not a bad thing for any of them. Most just found more out there than medicine.
I worry, now that D is an M1, that after all the hard work, when she starts practicing she’ll regret all the hard work, I hope the job satisfaction is very high to compensate for it.
I never had to worry about grades or getting into non-academic trouble.
I did not worry about my D. being pre-med. I just kept reminding her that whatever she does, she needs at least 8 hours of sleep (she actually needs about 10, but I “slack off” on my request). She actually was on a “helping” side, she was an SI for Chem prof. and according to many comments from prof. and students, she has helped many in raising grade in Chem. class. So, one advice from this prospective to any student / parent, is to make sure that they use ALL resources availble for them at college, please, do not hesitate to do so. Sometime instructions given by a classmate may be more clear than prof’s instructions, they simply are closer to you in intellectual level.
One thing is a great help for pre-meds - having good pre-med committee at college is crucial for Medical School application cycle. I know that my D. was able to apply earlier than many here at CC because her pre-med advisory was simply super, could not ask for any better.
I worry about how to find someone who can even guide this process.
I don’t even have a freshman. My d is coming very late in the game. This type of medical career would be a second career. So, while most schools are set up with advisors who handle freshman, who handles this type of student? This one is not seeking a second bachelor’s and has most classes at the institution that granted the first bachelor’s, other pre-reqs have been picked up at different schools and out of order (gen bio, for instance, after A & P, micro, patho, advanced anatomy, etc.) Seems silly to do a very expensive post-bac when the grades are in range and most of the pre-reqs were covered in the first bachelor’s.
ordinarylives:
To clarify, D isn’t currently in school, so having no access to pre-health advisors? What help does D need next, with the application process?
miamiDAP:
“So, one advice from this prospective to any student / parent, is to make sure that they use ALL resources availble for them at college, please, do not hesitate to do so. Sometime instructions given by a classmate may be more clear than prof’s instructions, they simply are closer to you in intellectual level.”
Totally agree. At the large public’s that I know, which I guess may be in part because of just how huge they are, students often do not take advantage of the resources like they should, to their own detriment. What we have found when it comes to tutoring is that many students have a psychological barrier/feeling of shame. Basically, only “stupid” people need tutors, or that it shows that they aren’t as good or “weak” at something. Or for those who have always been successful without even trying, it is hard to accept the fact that they need help.
I have to provide some personal background. I went to a very demanding all boy college prep high school. A’s were 93-100 and were earned, not dispensed like Pez candy. As a result I found college to be far less demanding than hs ever was. S took “rigorous” high school curriculum, many, many AP college prep courses, ending with very high GPA. But even S described hs AP courses as bottomless pits of points where kids had many available avenues to raise grades. (Personally I thought AP courses were a joke and mainly a money making scheme, but I digress). I always felt that S’s belief that AP courses had actually prepared him for college had given him misplaced confidence about upcoming college demands. Combined with speed of quarter system and wanting to fit in socially, I believed S was in for rude awakening about med school plans while a freshman. He ended year with GPAs below 3.2.
S was an adult, living in a dorm. We were way past grounding him, time outs, whatever… Other than moral support, being available as a sounding board, I didn’t have to do anything. S recognized that his med school hopes were fading in rear view mirror and turned ship around on his own. Although he did talk to advisors, I don’t remember S relating anything earth shattering other than what he already knew, i.e. his GPAs had to go up. They did, he’s currently a resident.
Meh?
Not sure. I found that sometimes when S was growing up if wife and I said something, he wouldn’t believe it, but if teacher said exact same thing, it was taken as gospel truth. So on the one hand maybe if S had access to academic and planning pre college from someone knowledgeable it may have helped. On the other hand I’m not sure he would have been receptive to info or knowledge would have sunk in.
D graduates next month with her BSN. She is knocking off OChem at a college in a nearby city because that’s where she could find it and boards this summer (because she’s nuts) and has nurse residency position lined up for fall at the hospital associated with the state college that houses the state’s medical school (only out-of-staters would call it the flagship).
She has had access to prehealth advisors at her current school, but having decided after junior year that pre-med was the path she wanted, the brutal nursing curriculum left little room for anything but nursing classes. And D will finish what she started. She managed to squeeze in second semester gen chem, but has to go back and take first semester as nursing chem won’t hold any water with med schools (according to her advisors at her current school).
Yes, when D moves and restarts school in the spring at big state U, she will need help figuring out what she really needs to take before MCATs to be a competitive candidate, and the application process. I’m worried that people who handle traditional students won’t know what to do with her.
OP - this is a great topic. Are you one of those parents?
For the “average” pre-med students, they need to realize pre-med is a battle and unfortunately they must fight through the weeder classes to get to the finish line - with GPAs that are eligible for committee letter & strong enough for med school. Just look at the numbers - how many freshman/sophomores taking the pre-med classes (gen. chem, organic chem…) and how many junior/seniors getting the committee letter, I’d say it’s around 5:1, only 25%. If you’re a pre-health advisor yourself, what would you do? I’d think this is very similar to applying college in high school, many students wanted to get into Ivies but at the end, only few will get admitted. Or think in another angle, if the pre-health advisors and the college are so successful that they turn every single freshman thinking pre-med into an eligible med school applicant, would there be so many med school spots available for them?
So for the average students and parents, I’d think the strategy would be - pick your classes and load carefully, watch your grades carefully, seek help when you start falling behind.
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