Sorry that I did not choose better words. My intent was not to say that Hanna believes ‘the innocent until proven guilty’ that our country was founded on is wrong No. It’s all good. However, I think there are bad guys who get away with bad actions over and over again. I grew up with some young men who grabbed our breasts and other horrible actions until they reached adulthood and were convicted of rape and long sentences in prison. From my experience, I do not think it is common for someone to be accused from one poor judgement call. In the Vanderbilt case there was testimony that the father told his son to flush the condoms to eliminate evidence. I just cannot believe this was a ‘first action, bad judgement’ experience. ymmv
The young woman in the Vandy case is pursuing a research career so her name will be Googled more than most people.
Chessie already was harmed by reporting the assault. When you read about what happened when she returned to St. Paul’s the next fall, it is sickening, for the most part. (It is in the plaintiff’s statement of the suit against St. Paul’s, which is available on line.). The reaction by a number of young male students was terrible. At least some of this probably would not have happened had she not reported the assault. There were a few adults at St. Paul’s who made a sincere attempt to help her, which is all to the good. But she ultimately had to transfer to a different school.
When MaterS wrote about the reporting being “damaging,” I did not assume that she meant just the effect on later admissions or employment. Rather, I thought about the totality of the experience.
If it had been I, my belief in the fundamental goodness of human beings would have been severely undercut not simply by the actions of the assaulter, but by the negative actions of the young males when I returned to school in the fall. My ability to trust people would have been severely compromised. Perhaps both perceptions would have become more accurate, on average. As a scientist, I suppose I should not believe that perceptions becoming more accurate could be damaging–but I hope you understand what I mean. In the same circumstances, I would have become very slow to trust people who are trustworthy, as well as those who are not. I might have become suspicious of people who are truly good.
I do think that there are people who will think more highly of Chessie because she reported the assault. On balance, it may be positive for her–and I hope that it will be. Yet I don’t think MaterS was wrong to say that it will also be damaging, in terms of interactions with some people. The average outcome does not cover the extremes.
"When MaterS wrote about the reporting being “damaging,” I did not assume that she meant just the effect on later admissions or employment. "
The phrase used was “damaging to her FUTURE” (emphasis added). If others would use this phrase, on a college admissions board, to refer to someone’s feelings of distrust, that’s fine. That’s not how I would use the phrase.
When I think about the future of a young woman, I do think about mate selection (if any) and life experiences, as well as admissions and later employment. True, this is a college admissions board, but the Cafe covers a pretty wide range of topics. Refrigerator or Mixmaster preferences, anyone? Not meaning to debate, just to explain my thinking. (I grant that if B would have any qualms about A due to a past assault on A, A probably would not want to marry B in any event.)
I appreciate the comments by CardinalFang and by MaterS in support of Hanna’s statement. The idea that people are innocent until proven guilty is crucial to justice. Some young men have been treated unfairly in college adjudications, and it is all to the good to keep that in mind.
It is perhaps worth noting that the two young women in the Nassar case who reported prior to 2015 and got any action at all both reported the assault to the police. One reported to the local, non-university police in the area, who investigated and concluded that Nassar was acting within established medical practice. The other reported both to the university Title IX office and to the university police. The university police wanted charges to be filed, but the prosector declined to do so.
I have not generally felt that reporting to the police is the necessarily best route for a college student who has been assaulted. Counter to that, I have to admit that the “best” outcomes (prior to 2015) were for women who did report to the police. There were at least investigations. But even in those cases, the outcomes were not right.
“When I think about the future of a young woman, I do think about mate selection (if any) and life experiences, as well as admissions and later employment… (I grant that if B would have any qualms about A due to a past assault on A, A probably would not want to marry B in any event.)”
Looking on the bright side, it does helps provide a litmus test to keep a-holes - be it a potential mate, friend, employer, etc. - out of one’s life. Good riddance to anyone judging the victim in this case.
Agreeing happily with doschicos #1964 for the most part.
People who are negative about the victim can be kept out of significant roles in the victim’s future–for the most part. (It would be hard to know about ones boss’s boss’s boss, though, or one’s spouse’s great aunt.)
The one place where I do not agree with doschicos is the “good riddance” part. There have been people on this very thread who have blamed the victim. While I disagree strenuously and absolutely with that view, and while I tend to look with suspicion on their views on other topics, I don’t necessarily think they are awful people–just very mistaken on this topic.
It will be hard to completely exclude peripheral encounters with such people in the future.
I don’t think it is right to downplay the adverse effects of reporting an assault (which go beyond the adverse effects of the assault itself). This is a major reason why people who have been assaulted may not report it. If more people reported assaults on them, it is my opinion that the damaging after-effects would decline, because the victims would be in such large company.
Just to add: Someone has to be the very public pioneer in reporting, in some high-profile cases. I have great respect for people like Chessie who are willing to take on that role.
Reporting to the police (not necessarily exclusively to the police) has the best chance of stopping the suspect, even though the chance may not be good, due to nonchalance or incompetence by police or DA (or anyone else reported to).
However, if “outcome” includes ostracism of the victim by supporters of the suspect, that can (and presumably is) a strong deterrent against reporting (to police or otherwise), especially when the chance of stopping the suspect is low or perceived to be low.
For future reference, even in the cafe, if I say that I’m worried about an event damaging a student’s future, I’m thinking about their education and their career. I’d use different language to express concern about their feelings or their mental health. I guess I’m in the minority.
"The high court handed down its decision Friday as Labrie continues to serve the remainder of a one-year jail sentence at the Merrimack County jail in Boscawen. Labrie returned to jail Dec. 26 and is scheduled to be released June 24.
Labrie previously served 63 days of his one-year sentence after he repeatedly violated the curfew set in his bail conditions."
reported upthread that the accused was “a senior who had already been accepted at Harvard, where he planned to study theology. He was a prefect too, given extra responsibility for helping younger students”
Why would such a depraved person choose to study theology? What motivates an abusive young man to take on the responsibilities of a prefect? He certainly does sound like a sociopath. His acceptance at both institutions casts an extremely troubling light on misogynistic culture at both Harvard and St. Paul’s.
Theology isn’t a major at Harvard. He was just lying to sound good. (There is a comparative religion major.) I think we can give Harvard a pass on this one. They rescinded his acceptance.
From an interview she did last March. She liked her Florida school, starred in the school musical, was on the debate team, and had a boyfriend, she stated. I was glad for her. @Hanna was right, she landed on her feet at a great college
Yes, I was disgusted when I read that Labrie has been released.
It would be nice if I thought Labrie had learned his lesson, but unfortunately I just can’t believe that. I haven’t seen anything to suggest that he has admitted that what he did was wrong and/or has an ounce of remorse for what he did.
I respect the Prout family for the way they supported their daughter and sought justice. I doubt Chessy would have gotten through the nightmare as well as she did without a strong family behind her.