Preparing to Apply - Information for H.S. Juniors and Seniors

<p>Many schools will not allow the AP music theory test to count for the first level music theory classes – although I am sure that some may…particularly for a Musical Theatre student.</p>

<p>At JMU, for example, the AP Music Theory score will nto fulfill the music theory requirment, HOWEVER any student can take the JMU credit by examination test at the start fo the semester. A student who has recieved a 4 or 5 on the test would most likely pass the credit by examination test, and thus receive the credit.</p>

<p>Yet another thing to check with each school individually :)</p>

<p>Thanks to both of you soozievt and MichaelNKat. The wisdom that you share from your personal experiences have been very helpful in making us ask the tough questions and “dig” out the unconventional paths. </p>

<p>I completely appreciate that it is a strange and possibly complex concept and I hope to be able to report good results as the process develops.</p>

<p>On one last note I will share this. I don’t see as many CC’ers from the West Coast as I do the other parts of the country. In saying that, at least at my sons school, there is a different sense of the need to get into the business as soon as possible. We live very near to the “Hollywood scene” and the school is 10 minutes from Disneyland. The opportunities for the students are countless to the point that they often have to turn down professional offers to complete their high school education (one student was in the Disney movie “Minutemen”, and one was in the movie “Mean Girls”).</p>

<p>Being that the school weighs equally the importance for the academic education as the arts, they do a lot of educating for the “balance” of the student. </p>

<p>Now, these opportunities for work with Disney, Nickelodeon, Hollywood studios, etc. are not limited to just the students at the many PA high schools in the area. It is open to everyone, it is just that the teachers and master class instructors are “plugged in” to the professional world and know of the opportunities so they post them at the school. They also do not encourage a student to go directly into the business. The successful alumni that have returned to the school and shared their stories are 25-30 years old. Their experience as a new college graduate in NYC or LA was that they were not considered for parts not due to their excellent education or experiences, but the lack of maturity or age. They “looked” too young for the part or the older actor was not comfortable in a romantic scene with a 22 or 23 year old fresh out of college.</p>

<p>There are of course exceptions to every rule, especially with shows that are looking for young talent, but the need to start working as soon as possible is not necessarily encouraged where we are. This might explain some of the confusion when one hears that a student may be happy to have an extra couple of years to get to the performing aspect of the education.</p>

<p>I am not saying that it is right or fair, but the opportunities that are offered to each student or school or area can have an impact on the students view of the path that they take. Three of the PA high schools here are given the privaledge of giving their end of year showcase in the Orange County Performing Arts Center that has 3000 seats. The students have performed with Broadway artists on that stage and so although the awe of Broadway is always there, it is somewhat subdued by these high school experiences.</p>

<p>I cannot tell you how blessed we are to have such opportunities at this and many other schools in our area and by no means think that it gives the students who attend them a “leg up” to anyone else who is standing right beside them in the auditioning process. I do, however, think that it may give a little different perspective. Many of the teachers at the schools hold down full time jobs and then do their performing in the evenings and weekends. The students are completely surrounded with the aspects of “the business” for 4+ years (depending on whether they start in Jr High or High School).</p>

<p>I graduated from a tiny little high school in Oklahoma with a graduating class of 56 students. None of this exposure was available, a great vocal music teacher and lot of opportunities to perform solo work at local and state competitions. I will tell you that I was completely overwhelmed when moving to SoCal 7 years ago and seeing the amount of opportunity for not only the arts,but also education, athletics, etc.etc. I truly believe that whatever opportunities you are offered or not that you can be just as or more competitive in anything if you put your heart and soul into it. </p>

<p>So, maybe this is a little different perspective or experience than some other students have had, maybe not. I don’t need anyones approval or acceptance. I just hope that we can learn from each others experiences, whether they be geographical, economical, cultural or otherwise.</p>

<p>Hopefully this explains a little of the difference in thought process in this particular college application process. :)</p>

<p>Thanks for sharing your perspective. </p>

<p>In my observations on this forum, I don’t see many trying to rush to get into the biz. Most here are contemplating four year college educations and NOT going straight to the biz. I know my kid wants and values the college degree and loves doing the training and even though she is in NYC, she refuses to audition for anything that would take her out of college even temporarily. </p>

<p>She has some friends from your son’s high school as well. </p>

<p>By the way, my thoughts about spending two years after the BFA to complete the engineering degree were not related to “not rushing” to hit the audition circuit. I was saying that it is a personal choice if someone who got a BFA would be satisfied to not be involved in artistic training or productions for two years…I didn’t mean in relation to putting off working in their career field or trying to get to Broadway, but more stopping any participation in the field in school or otherwise for two years. The kids i know who have chosen a BFA path, tend not to want to put their passion for performing arts aside for two years while they do something else. It doesn’t have anything to do with how soon or not they hit the work world. Sorry if my point was interpretted to mean a “rush to Broadway.” I never thought of that idea. I wasn’t talking about more years of school but more that there would be a big time period when all performing arts was put aside (if completing an engineering degree after a BFA was over).</p>

<p>I get what you are saying. At some of the schools that we visited another year at the school where they earned their BFA was not necessarily discouraged. </p>

<p>When asking if one could still take classes or audition for something on campus after recieving the BFA it was almost always yes. </p>

<p>At Syracuse for instance it is an opportunity to keep working on that Equity card so that is one example where the training is still continueing, just not in a strict defined program. The artistic training never really ends.</p>

<p>Having been a vocalist for 30 years I love that fact that I will have that gift for a very long time. Maybe a dancer is different, but no matter what unless something happens to the voice, you can always have the joy of singing. :)</p>

<p>It very well might work out great for your son to do the path you describe and it truly is a personal choice. In fact, because he likes two fields equally, he may not mind putting performing arts on hold for a year or two after the BFA is over. Lots of kids that I know who opt to do a BFA in MT, cannot imagine a year or two not immersed in their craft and field of passion. That is often what separates the line of who ideally should do a BFA and who might be more suited to a BA because in a BA, one can do two things equally and often those who want a BFA are ready to commit fully to one area of passion only (with liberal arts on the side). I think Doctorjohn has a questionnaire in the FAQ section of this forum that students can answer to help them determine if a BFA or a BA is the right fit for them and one telltale sign of a BFA applicant is usually that they can’t imagine doing anything else or giving up MT entirely, even if temporarily. So, again, this is all a personal choice and I am sure your son can find what fits him the best. I do think that a BA school would be a great option for him to study both of his areas of passion.</p>

<p>Thanks and now time to move on. I just received word that son has been awarded the lead in the Jr/Sr play at school, so I have more exciting things to prepare for today :)</p>

<p>Congrats to your son! That’s great news.</p>

<p>Ok, I am appyling to NYU’s early decision Musical Theatre program and I am in need of some help. I am a very strong alto and mezo soprano; however, I am quite unsure what two pieces I should sing. One needs to be a ballad and the other needs to be an uptempo. Then the monologues need to be contemp. I am always playing comedic roles including Mme Thenardier but serious roles in between such as Tamora from Titus Andronicus. I need as much help and advice possible!! Thanks!!</p>

<p>caitlin - I noticed that you posted this question on the NYU thread as well, and also that you are a relatively new poster, so welcome :)!</p>

<p>Although I really understand that it would seem logical to ask this question here, the best person to actually ask about recommendations for your song selection would be your voice teacher, or someone who has worked with you and knows you better. In the past many have asked the same question as you, and the answer is always the same, it is really difficult for anyone to recommend songs without actually knowing you. Also, it is part of the groundwork you need to do on your own, preparing for the audition process. </p>

<p>There is actually a lot of information available if you read through these threads, also on what to stay away from (overdone material etc.). </p>

<p>In regard to monologues, the same holds true, read some recaps of plays and see what character you can identify with, then see if there is a monologue that captures your imagination, read the whole play so that you can put it in context, and voila, you can really relate to the material. </p>

<p>Here are two really helpful websites with lots of information that can help you out though:</p>

<p>[Broadway</a> Musical, Opera & Play Auditions and Plot Summaries](<a href=“http://www.stageagent.com%5DBroadway”>http://www.stageagent.com)</p>

<p>[MusicalTheatreAudition.com</a> - Home](<a href=“musicaltheatreaudition.com”>musicaltheatreaudition.com)</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Do not do monologues from musicals. The monologues you do for college auditions should be from published plays.</p>

<p>MichaelNKat:</p>

<p>I am new to this site and trying to get the lay of the land. You mentioned that your D applied for a BA program, in addition to her BFA choices. Could you mention few of the BA programs you are aware of? Also–another poster mentioned that you sent her a spreadsheet about colleges/requirements, etc. Would you be willing to share that material with me?</p>

<p>I find your posts intensely informative. Thanks for taking the time!</p>

<p>adamscc</p>

<p>adamscc, if you send me an email at <a href="mailto:michaelnkat@comcast.net">michaelnkat@comcast.net</a> I will be glad to send you the spreadsheets/charts. As to BA programs, there’s a thread titled “Good Safety Schools for MT” on page 2 of the MT site that has a load of info on BA programs. The 2 that I have the most familiarity with are Muhlenberg (non-audition BA) and Temple (non-audition BA Theater program, can audition for MT concentration after the first year, so you can initially get into the theater program on a non-audition basis). Both have very good theater departments, but are very different schools in other respects.</p>

<p>(Bumped because the redesign of the CC site has resulted in the loss of the pegged “Featured Threads” and this is an informative one for this time of the year :slight_smile: )</p>

<p>Perhaps a bit off topic, but part of preparing to apply is being sure one has satisfied all academic and testing requirements, any thoughts on how many or whether SAT II subject tests are generally required for MT majors? I just checked NYU’s site, assuming it would be among the more academically rigorous schools, and it only requires 2 SAT subject tests but none for Tisch or Steinhardt applicants. Any thoughts?</p>

<p>This is something very specific to each school and so I would not want to give a general answer and then you later find out one of your schools requires the test. Everyone’s college list is different and there are many schools. </p>

<p>HOWEVER…MOST BFA/BM schools for MT seem to NOT require the SAT Subject Tests. Many BFA in MT programs are not located in highly academically selective colleges and those are the colleges that tend to require the SAT Subject Tests. With NYU, by the way, SAT Subject Tests are not required of Tisch or Steinhardt but are recommended. My D who goes to NYU/Tisch took three SAT Subject Tests (this was before Writing became part of the regular SAT), and sent them to all her schools. I happen to think it was a plus on her record and didn’t hurt since she did very well and she also was an early graduate and so it likely helped to see her capability, which I realize is a specific situation. </p>

<p>Anyway, there are BA schools that often land on the college lists of MT applicants that DO want SAT Subject tests like UCLA or UC-Irvine and that’s why I don’t want to make a blanket statement about no Subject Tests. Some such schools recommend them like Northwestern recommends 3 Subject Tests and USC and American recommend 2 (I think when a school recommends something, you should do it). But many schools that want the Subject Tests offer two options…either SAT plus two Subject Tests OR the ACT. </p>

<p>Check each of your child’s schools. But most BFA in MT programs do not require these. Some kids who apply for a BFA in MT, may also apply to some acting schools and so for example, BU requires them. Generally, it is the very selective colleges that want these and most of them do not offer MT or if they do (like CMU), their BFA students are not required to submit these scores.</p>

<p>Thanks, Soozievt!</p>

<p>My D has really strong academics 2300+ SAT and 4.0 GPA, salutatorian of her class. We have been really torn about where to apply. </p>

<p>She LOVES musical theater. Her grades go up everytime she is in a show. Like many others, she started out this journey lookng at BFA MT programs. I have been reading many of the replies posted in the musical theater forum and am so grateful to everyone’s posts.</p>

<p>I’m begining to panic because I don’t feel we have found the schools that would have both strong academics, MT and still be affordable and allow her to double major. </p>

<p>We are having a hard time justifying expense of MT school when probability of success is so low. We are also concerned she may regret not taking more academics later on in life or be bored at some schools. We have insisted she double major to have a back up. </p>

<p>Just wondering what others with similar children have done, or any advice any counselor types may have.</p>

<p>idk,
Kudos to your D for her strong academic record. It will serve her well in college admissions and possible merit aid at schools that offer it. </p>

<p>Here’s my take…
First, I think your D needs to decide whether she wants to pursue a BFA in MT or to do a BA. Very strong academic students do BFAs. They are not wasting their intellect. There are a few BFA in MT programs located within more academically selective colleges…such as NYU/Tisch (or Steinhardt), U of Michigan, U of Miami, and a little less but still academically selective: Emerson, Elon. So, if your D does want a BFA in MT, she might want to go heavier on her list with programs located in academically challenging/selective colleges. As an aside, I can tell you that my own D, now in her senior year at a BFA in MT program, preferred to go to a BFA program in a more academically selective setting with some liberal arts as part of the degree. She is now at Tisch. </p>

<p>But there are many BA schools that may also be good for your D to look at where she can also do MT…such as Northwestern, USC, American, Muhlenberg, and others. Or there are great BA schools very strong in theater, with MT opportunities that are very academically selective such as Brown, Yale, Skidmore, and many others (I know some top MT kids who have opted for BA schools like these). </p>

<p>But let’s say your D definitely wants a BFA. At a lot of BFA programs, you cannot double major. If your D really wants a double major, a BA schools is more appropriate. However, you can double major at some BFA schools…such as NYU/Tisch, though it is difficult (it can be done). Your D may wish to consider a MINOR in another subject instead. That can be done at some schools, including Tisch. </p>

<p>But in my opinion, I would not view it the way you are viewing it that she needs a second major as a “back up.” My kid doesn’t have second major or even a minor as a “back up.” In my view, my kid is getting a college education. She happens to be majoring in MT/Drama. When you go to college, and graduate, it doesn’t mean that the only thing you are equipped to do is to work in what you majored in. Look at the adults you know today. Many are not working in a field that was their major. Many jobs take college educated graduates no matter their “major.” Not only that, but theater majors are well prepared to do a variety of jobs other than to perform. So, I think you need to look at it as a college education and with that education, your D will be employable no matter her major. A second major is not needed as a back up. My D has “back ups”, though she is really gonna go for it as a performer. Her back ups are in her FIELD (not to say she couldn’t be employed outside of her field…I bet she could be). In her case, her back ups are related to other skills she has in this field. I’m not saying this would be another person’s back ups but I offer this as an EXAMPLE. My D could be employed as (she already has been hired for these sorts of jobs) a musical director, a composer/arranger, an accompanist, a teacher of MT for kids, a performer in a piano bar type setting, or a writer. I am confident she will find work even if not on stage. She doesn’t need a second major. She will be employable and she’ll have a degree. So, if I were you, I would rethink the “needs a second major” idea. But if you are feeling quite strong about that notion, I urge your D to pursue a BA path where a double major is much more viable and she could still become a professional actor. </p>

<p>If your D does go down the BFA path, she ought to seek out schools that are more academically challenging. By the same token, she’ll have to realize that a lot of BFA programs are not located in the most academically selective universities even though the BFA programs themselves are highly selective. Also, I would not rule out the more expensive school price tags because your D stands to receive merit aid and so the bottom line is the real price you’ll have to pay, not the price tag. That remains to be seen. My kid goes to a very expensive university, NYU. It so happens, of all the BFAs she was accepted to, where she received scholarships at them all, the highest scholarship she won for four years was at NYU. It is substantial. Further, this year, her senior year, she has been awarded three more scholarships at NYU. So, I can’t guarantee that will happen for your D but I’m sharing it so that you can see that it is POSSIBLE and your D has a very strong academic profile. I know at NYU it is more than just academics but things like artistic talent and leadership play a part. </p>

<p>I don’t know if this helps but these are the things your D needs to weigh at this point.</p>

<p>PS…I’m just going to add that when you talk about justifying the expense given the low rate of success for an actor…I don’t see it that way. I don’t send my kid to college to simply get a job. I am sending her to get an education. Her education has been worth every dime no matter what jobs she eventually secures. That is another way to look at it. I value the education itself and not just as a step to a job. That said, I am sure she’ll be employed in some capacity in the future and having a degree will open more job opportuntiies than not having one.</p>

<p>Thanks for your input. You have some very valid points. I am one of those adults who was not employed in my field of study after college. I had to scramble to go to grad school to get a n MS degree after I realized in my senior year that I really wasn’t cut out to teach. </p>

<p>I have been reading your other posts with interest. (We hired a college counselor to help us with the college search. Unfortuantely she was knowledgable in Ivy League Admissions but not much help with MT ) </p>

<p>What are the BA path schools where a double major is much more viable and one could still become a professional actor in your opinion?</p>

<p>My D list looks like this right now:
Yale
Northwestern—College fair person told us that getting into MT certificate program would not probably not be a problem because not that many people audttion for it??
Syracuse BFA
Univesity of Michigan BFA
Brown
Columbia (she did not want to go to Barnard all women so if she gets in here she will study theater which is at Barnard)
Wagner BA
Vassar
American BA,<br>
Muhlenberg BA, safety
Temple College fair person told us Temple did not have MT program but CC posts say it does???
Montclair State BFA, full-ride if accepted</p>

<p>Her initial choices were Yale, Northwestern Syracuse, University of Michican,
Ithaca, Carnegie Mellon , Hartt.. Penn State. . </p>

<p>Ithaca and Carnegie Mellon got dropped because you can not double major. </p>

<p>We added Wagner, American, Muhlenberg, Temple and Montclair State because aid may be better at these schools. </p>

<p>We started out the college selection process never realizing D would rank so high in school or do so well on the SAT’s. . It changed the whole direction of the college selection process. That change in direction has in fact been very stressful.. While many would envy being in my position , I wish we had the information well BEFORE we started the college search.. It’s taken me until now to get back to what is really important.. Not the scores but what the student wants to study.. </p>

<p>Which is why I am panicking.</p>

<p>First, take a deep breath. These things have a way of working out! Call the schools that she is intested in and directly ask if they allow a double major. That will narrow your list quite a bit, many schools do not allow for MT and double major. You could email
SoozieVT (she perfers email over PM). She is a college counselor with particular knowlege of MT, although she works with students in all areas. She would probably know more about the MT double major than most anyone else. GOOD LUCK!</p>