My daughter is a senior looking to pursue engineering. We live in Florida and some of our state schools (UF and UCF) have very strong and challenging engineering programs. She is applying to these schools as well as Duke and Princeton and others. I have mixed feelings about Duke and Princeton because it’s been a very stressful year and my daughter is very type A. She is an excellent student (4.0 GPA, 4.98 HPA, #5 in her class at very aggressive school, 12 APs, 8 college courses, etc) but her SAT at this time is 2120. She’s taking one last stab in November. My concern is that at a school like Duke or Princeton (if she got in), she’d be on the lower end or average in her class and I’m concerned that this will lead to 4 years of stress and misery. So my question is whether this is a founded concern or just another Mom worrying. Some people have said “the hardest part is getting in” but I find this hard to believe when some of these kids have gotten 2300 on their SAT in their first sitting.
What kind of college courses did she take, and how well did she do in them? Depending on the courses, that may be a better predictor of future college performance than SAT scores.
It is not like her SAT score is low. Also, Duke is ACC, not Ivy.
Another question: how well does she deal with competition? She may be a top student in her high school, but at the elite schools she will be one of hundreds top students. That said, schools like Princeton and (I assume) Duke have enormous resources to help their students succeed. In many ways, your daughter would be in a more supportive environment than at, say, a large public flagship.
She got As in all of them. Her APs were
Human Geography
World History
Music Theory
Chemistry
Physics 1
Language and Composition
US History
Physics 2
Calc AB
English Lit
Psychology
Government and Economics
College Courses were:
Sociology
Speech
College Algebra
Microcomputer Applications
Anthropology
Statistics
Macroeconomics
Art Appreciation
What does ACC stand for? I do realize Duke is not an Ivy but I wasn’t sure what to call it - I guess an ACC.
The Ivy League is just a sports league. The sports league Duke is in is the ACC. That was the point the poster was making.
Basically, if you are referring to selective/top ranked colleges just say that.
Both sons in engineering schools with a reputation for high intensity.
One of the parent orientation sessions included a speech that included
“your kids likely got mainly As in HS, but they may get Cs here. That’s OK, they are still learning.”
The best schools don’t want to lose your student, if they need help, there is usually lots of help to be utilized.
ACC is an Athletic Conference, as is the Ivy League.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Coast_Conference
Don’t worry about athletic conferences, not a big deal.
Duke is more competitive to get in, than some of the Ivy League schools.
As far as graduating, all engineering schools would be tough, just a matter of whether
a kid can handle Bs and Cs instead of all As.
She’ll probably be an average student at a more competitive school. If she would have a problem with that then those schools may not be good choices.
It depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to say go med school where having a high GPA is key, then you probably do want to attend a college where you will be a better than average student. Not necessarily go to the top place you can get into.
If her goal is to just be a working engineer, then I am sure she will be fine. She clearly is smart with a good work ethic. But yes, you can’t be afraid that you might graduate with a C (or even two!) on your transcript somewhere. Students who are used to making all As sometimes struggle with that (I know I did when I went from being big fish in a small pond to my undergrad where that was no longer true).
Although the college courses do not appear to be high level ones (most seem to be frosh-level introductory ones; college algebra is a lower level one that is typically like high school precalculus in content), if they were normal college courses (i.e. at the college, not dual-enrollment-in-the-high-school-classroom), then doing well in them indicates that she is likely to have good study habits for college courses that involve much less hand-holding and progress-monitoring than high school (including AP) courses typically have.
While Princeton and Duke have competitive students, the average GPAs there are high (3.39 and 3.51 respectively in 2014, according to http://www.gradeinflation.com/ (links at the bottom)), so grades should not be that much of a concern unless she is also pre-med or pre-law.
You did not list her scores in the AP courses she took. This could factor in regards to college credit for the FL schools vs Duke and Princeton.
My S got into his reach school and I was a bit nervous as well. I spoke to his guidance counselor who told me in no uncertain terms that colleges are very good at selecting students who will succeed at their school. So off he went – he worked extremely hard (it was a bit stressful at times). learned a ton, made great friends, was involved on campus and graduated with honors. So if your D gets in to one of those top tier colleges, it is affordable, and she wants to go I’d say go for it.
Engineers tend to have the highest HS grades and test scores of any group of students. Her engineering peers at UF will likely have near Ivy stats. At publics like GT & Michigan they definitely do. The Ivy’s are not the best schools for engineering either - they tend to have small engineering departments (except Cornell) and limited offerings. She may want to include a few more engineering focused schools on her list.
Engineering education is different than the typical LA program. Every engineering student, no matter how brilliant, is going to be stumped at some point. Schools design the curriculum that way. They work in small groups on projects. Each student has a different perspective and approach. She will have hidden talents that reveal themselves. The schools are trying to stretch their student’s brains and hammer in that engineering is a collaborative discipline. It is not easy for anyone. With stats like hers she will fit in most anywhere.
I found that student projects and research, along with the level and quality of support are the distinguishing factors between a good and a great program.
The SAT math sub-score is what matters for engineering.
Ivy league and other elite engineering programs are difficult. Don’t believe the people who say they are no different than any other engineering program.
She will probably not get into an Ivy with a 2120. I recommend she get a Skype tutor to invest in improving that score. Of the Ivies, Penn has a strong engineering program and they weigh gpa more, and SAT scores less, than their peers. that could be helpful to her. Penn tends to be place lower in engineering rankings, but is one of the very highest in average salaries. I recommend taking the salary. lol
It sounds like she has the ability to handle the workload at a top school. I think the key is does she have the mindset? Does she like to be in classes where she is a stand-out student, or does she like to be in a class with peers? Does she love a challenge?
Of enrolled students at UF, the 75th percentile has a math score of 680. At Duke, their 25th percentile is higher than that with a math score of 690. Engineering at both will attract kids who do well at math, but the pool of students is different. At duke everyone in the top 25% percentile got a perfect score on the math basically (75th is 790)
Not trying to diss any schools at all, but just pointing out the competition aspect is a legitimate consideration.
One would need to compare the profile of the entering engineering students at one school versus another.
Or even better, why not compare the outcomes of the students?
IMHO this is one of those “cross that bridge when you come to it” things.
If your daughter gets into Duke would she really turn it down? Probably not. It sounded very tough to get in this past admissions cycle.
If it did come down to UF vs. Duke, or Princeton, or another elite - it’s not like UF engineering is going to be a cake walk. So if you’re going to work hard, why not work hard at Duke? 
My son is a freshman at UF, and already putting lots of time into his studies. UF is a great school to have in-state, and as an option. Our son absolutely loves it. So I’m not taking anything away from UF.
ETA: the other big factor in our decision would be shelling out $65K a year, or app. $17K.
Why is your daughter’s score beak-downs? Is she taking Calculus BC this year and, if so, how is she handling that? Why engineering? Is that choice based on a true passion because she has loved some courses, ECs (like robotics) or internship that has exposed her to engineering or is just because that’s something a lot of smart kids go into?
I ask these questions because a lot of students who go into engineering, especially at elite schools, will have very high math SAT scores, many will have gone beyond calculus in math, and so she will be in classes with students who are very strong in math. If she applies as an engineer and her math SAT isn’t upwards of 750 it’s unlikely that she will get into her reaches because those schools admit only a small percentage of applicants to begin with and because her stats don’t align with those applying specifically into engineering.
@murphybrown “A friend’s kid is premed at Duke and struggling. Got Cs in more than one semester of Chem. Kid was top of class at a large better public school with near perfect ACTs”
I think that this happens a lot because the competition at a school like Duke is tough. Still there is no disgrace in getting a couple of Cs at Duke, especially in a hard science. I wouldn’t call that struggling. The Cs don’t matter much, but how the student responds to the does. Do they decide they are a failure, and give up? Or do they buckle down and work even harder get themselves back on track?
The Ivies and equivalents will also offer a lot if she doesn’t decide to become an engineer. Likely more than the FL flagships.
But in any case, this is something to worry about once you actually have some bridges to cross.
I wouldn’t worry too much about her SAT score making her less qualified/prepared, because there’s no proof that it predicts college success. Also, many of the wealthier students get extremely expensive test prep courses that I assume weren’t available to your daughter. My friend in Yale got a 2100 on the SAT and he’s doing fine (not majoring in STEM, though). Maybe you should see if she gets in and then make the decision.