<p>BHG- You have been around this forum enough to understand the predominant slant. You shouldn’t really get your back up because your thread stirred up some dialogue. What in the h— did you expect?</p>
<p>My S actually was considering the Ivies. He had a written likely letter from one and a couple verbal likelies from others as a recruited athlete. (He also had the stats for admission. Not tops by Ivy standards, but more than solid for Ivy athletes.) </p>
<p>His academic interests are in Engineering and Business. As we researched all of his choices, he decided on a Public Ivy that offered him a significant athletic scholarship. (We did not qualify for any fin aid at the Ivies). Taking into account both his academic interests and our financial interests, attending the Public Ivy with a top 20 engineering program and a top 25 business program is right for him. Also, this state university has a top 4 program in one of the engineering majors he is considering. </p>
<p>S has already informed us that he would like to continue his studies beyond the undergraduate level. His decision to attend the State U will allow us to pay for his graduate education without incurring any debt.</p>
<p>In regards to State Us having large classes, during his first semester he will have only one large lecture. Two of his classes will have about 25 students, two will have about 35 students, and one will be slightly larger. I must note that when we visited the Ivies, we also saw large science lecture halls and large science labs.</p>
<p>So what are the reasons S chose the Public Ivy? </p>
<ol>
<li> Very solid, rigorous engineering program</li>
<li> Large availability of majors in case interests change over time</li>
<li> General education requirements in the Social Sciences, Humanities, Arts, and United States and International Cultures for a well-rounded education</li>
<li> Availability of honors classes</li>
<li> Availability of cooperative education and intern programs
6 Availability of undergraduate research assignments</li>
<li> Very good job placement/career center</li>
<li> Great alumni network</li>
<li> Scholarship money allowing for debt free undergraduate/graduate school.</li>
<li> Able to compete athletically at a Division I level</li>
<li> Great social environment</li>
</ol>
<p>Mom of WC; Yes, well that is why I started this thread. Because like Karp (handle name ???) said, there are many advantages out there to not going Ivy and it’s helpful for people to know them. </p>
<p>I thought what would happen here is all the Ivy people would start quoting me and shouting me down about how darn swell their pricy program was so I tried to stop that immediately with asking they not respond. As for my computer skills no, when poeple go into long winded or verbose posts I don’t catch it all. I’m just not that smart or interested. And there are some EXTREMELY bright people on c.c. who don’t seem to get it that we, the not as bright, can be here too. I do my best. I post often. (when I’m here) Sometimes I’m of value sometimes not, but darn, we can be here too. I mean, now this is going to be a shock to some but sometimes I read a post and I think, “what a stuck up sot.” I never say that to anyone. I never insult anyone intensionally. I try to be careful. But then I offer MY OPINION, that Princeton looks too overbuilt, this is MY OPINION . I’m entitled to that and some may even agree with me but others take it as a challenge to go after me by finding facts and figure to refute me. WHY? If you think Princeton is not overbuilt, good for you- I don’t care. You don’t have to go find facts and figures to try to RUN ME DOWN or out.</p>
<p>There are many very brilliant people here and they are good and deserve to be here and should be here.</p>
<p>BHG–all of your reasons for not considering an Ivy are all valid and shared by many. But your reason #4 didn’t make any sense to me in the context of a reason not to consider an Ivy. Sounded like a perfectly valid mini-rant, though…did it sneak into your original post?</p>
<p>“4. It isn’t worth it in the long run, sweat, slave, long hours, take all the risks,- just so the government can increase your taxes manyfold and no one ever give you a brake anywhere because, well, you’re in the so and so tax bracket. TIME my dear friend, is the greatest gift in life, not money”</p>
<p>Sorry if it sounded like a rant. Just forget it. TIME FOR A NEW THREAD!</p>
<p>“In my son’s sport, some of the best athletes choose Ivys and even their DIII counterparts, especially your own alma mater, Mini. Many of the powerhouse schools in the sport do not offer the academic environment many of the kids desire. The Ivys are DI, and the kids in many of the sports (all?) train every bit as hard and take their athletics just as seriously as those at Arkansas or Oregon.”</p>
<p>Sorry, but in my d’s sport, it isn’t even close. (Some MAY train as hard, some MAY be as talented, but as a whole, and for the vast majority of sports, not comparable - except perhaps in Xiggi’s list. The reason for it (to me) is obvious, too - they aren’t being paid to do it.) Last year, one of the best years they’ve had in 10, out of 86 schools in women’s gymnastics, the Ivies ranked 59th, 60th, 63rd, and 65th, ahead of such powerhouses as Gustavus Adolphus, Springfield College, University of Bridgeport, Brockport State, Cortland State, Wisconsin-Stout, Hamline, and Ursinus. They MAY train as hard, they MIGHT take their sport as seriously, but the results don’t show it. And that’s okay - it’s not like they don’t do other things well. ;)</p>
<p>My other d. (the noun) found paid research opportunities in the humanities in her first year that no Ivy - from what we found - could match. But, to be honest, the school itself isn’t that different.</p>
<p>I believe this thread can be very beneficial to readers as long as we stick to the facts pertaining to 'Why not an Ivy?" I think it is interesting why some students have chosen not look at/apply/attend the Ivies.</p>
<p>I guess what I meant to say in #4 was it is not worth it to us to pursue a prestigious Ivy undergrad education in order to pursue an Ivy professional school. That career option is in my opinion not worth it in terms of time and pressure .</p>
<p>Mini’s right. Yes, training can be extremely rigorous, dedicated athletes abound, and the schedule is tough in Ivy athletics, but the vast majority of cream of the crop student-athletes (with attention on the “student” part of that) take the scholarship from Stanford or Northwestern or Duke or USC or other top publics as well as privates. Tongue-in-cheek about “slackers” aside, sometimes the difference is no more than an inch or two in height or some other intractable physical characteristic that separates athletes of equal intensity, dedication, skill and talent. That translates into somewhat lower competition if you are comparing Notre Dame against an Ivy or a good D3 program. But it works just fine for most of the athletes involved because they are still playing very competitive sports with and against other athletes like themselves; but it is usually not NCAA D1 championship level sports. However, if you are a well trained, highly talented, lightening fast, skilled, agile and smart 6’5" female basketball player, if you want to play with and against other people who play at your level, you will need to look beyond Ivy schools because that’s where the money is and that’s where the best of the best typically want to play. There really are more than just eight great academic universities in the country and some of them offer their athletes money to come play for them. There are always some exceptions, and Ivy schools and D3’s do offer finaid, merit money, etc., but in the end, the athletic scholarship is what drives the choice for most athletes – whether directly or indirectly as the perception is that the athletics will be stronger at a USC than a Dartmouth.</p>
<p>For me, I wanted a liberal arts education with a student body that was very traditional and small in total number. The Ivies have a political agenda that I do not follow. I am sick of the code word of diversity and am fortunate to have found a school that is relatively homogenous.</p>
<p>See, there is always Bob Jones University, for those seeking homogeneity.</p>
<p>Hmm, while my daughter briefly thought about a couple of Ivies, she ultimately felt like she could find exactly what she needed/wanted in other schools without going through the angst of applying to an Ivy.</p>
<p>
LOL. Some people relish exclusivity. For me, I could never get my head around standing outside Toys R Us for 3 hours waiting for the Cabbage Patch dolls to be delivered. I told my kids they were just dolls and my kids believed me. Maybe the problem with the Edsel was that Ford just made too many of them. Maybe if they’d issued a “limited release” Edsel, they’d have been backordered for a year and a half. Nah. Probably not. Still, Cabbage Patch dolls were just dolls and they were ugly.</p>
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<p>Applying wasn’t where the angst came into play–hearing the answer certainly was!</p>
<p>My son applied to one - he is interested in business programs and there are only two Ivies that have UG programs - and he knew he had almost no shot at Wharton. Rejected from that one even though he had a solid profile - no big deal. He’s one of the top students at his very competitive HS and an NMF so he had the numbers to apply to quite a few Ivies - but not the interest. Chose an honors program at a quality state U. over many privates. It was not all money - just a better fit in his estimation. Many students at his HS are attending Ivies (over 25). Prestige is huge around here and there’s lots of money too!</p>
<p>Strange thread. Martini hour? Do the CC rules allow for personal threads in which you can say who should reply and how they should or should not reply? I’ve never seen a board/blog with that allowance.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And Hockey.</p>
<p>For me, I grew up in an atmosphere where going to an ivy league school was one of those things that happened to other people in other, far away places, but not to you or anyone you knew. Although to be fair that’s not strictly true, since usually there was at least one person in each year that ended up at an ivy or someplace people often mistake for one like MIT. </p>
<p>I always thought that I simply didn’t do enough impressive things in high school, not necessarily that I wasn’t smart enough. I didn’t really bother studying before taking the SATs, I didn’t take lots of AP classes to boost my gpa, I didn’t go out and join a ton of sports and activities or keep up with my piano lessons or anything like that. I always thought that doing things you wouldn’t normally do just for the sake of getting into some super selective college was rather fake and I didn’t want to spend all of my time and effort on the fakeness. I did look at a few schools but I didn’t apply to any because I figured I had nothing interesting to show them. I also didn’t think that I’d want to be stuck in a place full of the sorts of people I’d imagined would be at such a school in the first place.</p>
<p>My parents were convinced that I would definitely get in but they were also convinced it would be too expensive (even though the school I go to now has a tuition only a few thousand off from some ivy schools). Aside from limiting me on how far away from home I was allowed to be (west coast was never an option) and how much the school cost, they didn’t really pressure me one way or the other to go to any particular school.</p>
<p>I had a friend in another state who was one of those “I must get into an ivy or college will be totally worthless!” types. She spent lots of time doing stuff to make herself a competitive candidate. She went to some kind of magnet school. Whenever we would discuss what colleges we were applying to, she would always ask me why I’m not applying to any ivies and she would suggest the ones that she knew of that had my major. I think she applied to one “lesser” school just to have a backup in place. She’d probably fit in well here…I certainly don’t. I never understood the hype and I don’t like being looked down on (not openly, of course) because I don’t.</p>
<p>"I am not so sure that Dartmouth has many slackers on its Skiing and Women Lacrosse teams. </p>
<p>and Hockey."</p>
<p>I had to leave one out for the resident D’Mouth to notice. BTW, how did the baseball team do this year? We have at least one CC-slacker on that team. :)</p>
<p>Thank you Blah. Well, I don’t know about rules but if the people value the original poster, I think they will comply.</p>
<p>Did you follow this thread. If I were to have just left the thread without asking Ivy folks not chime in with their support for Ivies, this thread would have been taken over by them. </p>
<p>No, this thread has value. It shows others that getting into a Ivy League, or prestigious college, is not the preoccupation of eveyone seeking a college.</p>