Princeton or Yale

<p>I’ve scoured through possibly every such thread on CC after getting accepted at both these amazing schools but would love some direct advice. Going into the process (and even earlier in high school), H was my dream school but I’m realizing that the amazing undergrad focus at these two places means that the H rejection letter might just have been a blessing in disguise.</p>

<p>Okay so–a bit about me for starters. I’m from Islamabad, Pakistan. Really interested in the sciences and probably want to go for an engineering major but still want to have my options open. Head Boy at school (kinda-sorta Student Body Pres) but I think I’m more of an introvert. I mean, I’m good with meeting people and stuff but not always the initiate-contact sort. I’ve been to Yale already on a summer program (full scholarship, yay!) but can’t afford visiting Princeton for Preview. </p>

<p>Here are the pros I can see for each school:</p>

<p>Princeton

  • Undergrad focus
  • Seems to be MUCH better at engineering
  • Safer; quieter campus
  • Usually ‘ranked’ better. Esp in eng’g/math/CS
  • Better weather</p>

<p>Yale

  • Visited (and stayed at) campus; loved it
  • Perhaps better recognized abroad compared to Princeton (this matters since I might not be working in the US)
  • Giving slightly better finaid (roughly $2-3k more)
  • Handwritten note from Admissions Officer and a couple emails
  • Residential colleges system seems more tightly-knit than Princeton</p>

<p>Naturally, the most difficult part of this decision is the fact that I can’t visit Princeton. I’ve tried emailing the finaid office but sadly, they can’t reimburse international students for Preview-traveling. So I’ve had to rely on CC posts/Princeton videos/student testimonials to try and get a feel for the Princeton campus. Also, should I be worried about the grade deflation policies at P’ton? Considering that engineering majors are quite hard as it is.</p>

<p>Can’t think of other questions right now; I’ll add them on later. Thank you so much for reading this! And I’d be absolutely thankful for all your responses.</p>

<p>From the way you’re describing the schools, I think you should go to Yale. Everything you described out of Princeton wasn’t from a personal experience, and all of your experiences from Yale have been nothing but positive. </p>

<p>Unless you’re the type of person who likes to take a chance and commit to live in 4 years at a school you don’t know much of (which I’m guessing from your personality is not so), it’s better to play it safe and go with Yale. Not that Yale is the safe choice; they seem more personal to you than Princeton.</p>

<p>Congratulations by the way! </p>

<p>I have nothing but positive things to say about Yale, which is a great school. However, here are a few thoughts about Princeton.</p>

<p>First, grade deflation at Princeton was originally intended in part to address the fact that humanities majors generally received inflated grades compared to science/engineering majors. Thus, it has not generally been felt to have any impact on engineering majors (I’m not saying that engineering is easy or that students routinely get high grades - engineering is a challenging program no matter where you study).</p>

<p>In terms of the engineering program, Princeton engineering is extremely well-respected (and I honestly believe that Cornell and Princeton offer by far the best engineering departments in the Ivy League). I don’t know what type of engineering you’re interested in, but Princeton is incredibly strong in computer science (and math) as well as the more traditional engineering disciplines. </p>

<p>In terms of the campus, I think that one of the questions that I would ask you is what you particularly enjoyed about Yale’s campus. Was it the location inside a city or was it the beauty of the campus itself? If it was the beauty of the campus rather than New Haven, I can’t imagine you’d be disappointed with Princeton, which is generally considered to have one of the prettiest campuses in the country. </p>

<p>I’m not sure why you think Yale is better recognized abroad. I looked at three world university rankings; one had Princeton in 6th place and Yale in 11th place <a href=“World University Rankings 2013-14 | Times Higher Education (THE)”>http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/world-ranking&lt;/a&gt;; the second had Princeton in 7th place and Yale in 11th placehttp://<a href=“http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2013.html”>www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2013.html</a>; and the third had Yale in 8th place and Princeton in 10th place <a href=“QS World University Rankings 2014: Top Global Universities | Top Universities”>QS World University Rankings 2014: Top Global Universities | Top Universities;

<p>So, it seems like Princeton might have a slight advantage (or at least it’s a draw) and, if you were to factor in engineering reputation, I believe that Princeton would clearly have the advantage.</p>

<p>I love the residential college system at Yale and Princeton has spent several years trying to strengthen its residential college system. However, Princeton alumni clearly feel incredibly strongly about the school and their experience there - the alumni giving rate is the highest in the country (for universities) and Princeton traditions, such as reunions, bring back thousand of Princetonians each year. I don’t know how close-knit Yale is; what I do know is that Princeton students are passionate about the school and that loyalty continues after graduation.</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision and by the way, I went to Princeton, my daughter graduated from the school in 2010 and my son is currently attending Princeton, so I have a perspective of both an older alumna and the parent of two recent and very very very happy Princetonians. </p>

<p>uheaven is right that in Asia the most recognized schools are (in no particular order): Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Oxford and Cambridge. Rankings don’t mean much to the general public. </p>

<p>I don’t believe one should picks a school based on recognization but if that’s important to you then you should go to Yale, especially you have visited the school and seems to like it a lot. </p>

<p>I do think Princeton is a better school than Yale for undergrads and I’m very glad my daughter picked Princeton.</p>

<p>You can’t go wrong with either choice. Good luck!</p>

<p>@romeonachos‌ Fair point there. But thing is that all I’ve experienced about Yale has been the campus and buildings etc and not the academic aspects.</p>

<p>The general perception, though, seems to be that the engineering dept. at Yale doesn’t even compare. This is also showcased quite neatly on all the rankings I could find–the Times Higher rankings in particular that @midatlmom‌ referenced put Princeton at 2nd place worldwide for engineering last year (ahead of places like MIT!) while Yale isn’t even ranked in the Top 50.</p>

<p>And thank you!</p>

<p>@midatlmom‌ That’s an excellent point you make about grade deflation. Naturally, engineering is a tough discipline everywhere but I hope the deflation would sort of even out the field.</p>

<p>Your campus question really puts everything in perspective. At the summer program, we had certain boundaries which basically meant that we were restricted mainly to the Yale campus and the few streets that immediately bordered it (which didn’t have much besides a few restaurants, a Starbucks and a bookstore). So yes, I think it was solely the campus beauty that was attractive since that’s pretty much where we lived. And if Princeton is supposed to be even prettier then I don’t think I should have too many qualms. Also–how easy is the trip to NYC? I mean I’ve heard it takes about 90 minutes but is there a direct train/bus service or something? Do Princetonians usually go there for Broadway plays or weekends etc?</p>

<p>I think @aparentoftwo has the ‘most recognized list’ right. The ‘HYP’ of the US is shortened to ‘HY’ here for some reason. These are usually the schools that people mention when talking about prestige. I think it has something to do with the fact that many famous leaders have studied there in the past (even if we talk about Pakistan–Benazir studied at Harvard, Imran Khan at Oxford and Rehmat Ali at Cambridge). </p>

<p>But then again, this is all about something a friend calls ‘cocktail party points’. I’d imagine employers all around the world would be more interested in how well these schools rank (more so with engineering since Yale’s ranking is a far cry from Princeton’s) than how many times they’ve heard the name.</p>

<p>The alumni loyalty is definitely one thing about Princeton that’s stood out the most. From the wonderful interview I had to the giving rates, it definitely seems like P’ton alums absolutely love the school–and that’s very good to hear.</p>

<p>Regarding your questions about NYC.</p>

<p>Yes it’s about 90 minutes, and easily reachable by train. I wouldn’t say people usually go there on weekends or anything. But I’ve certainly gone some weekends. As far as Broadway trips - there are residential college trips which are quite a deal. $25 will get you a ticket (worth <em>way</em> more than that cost), bus ride there/back, and various snacks on the way. They do this a few times a semester. Same goes for trips to other things like sports events or the Met opera. </p>

<p>This is in the Princeton category, so naturally it is going to get a lot of pro-Princeton responses. Let me (frosh at Yale) give you the other side.</p>

<p>The residential college system at Yale is hands-down the best possible housing system. It creates a very home-y atmosphere and very tight bonds. There are 100 other freshman in my college and I am good friends (good enough to sit with them at a meal) with 96 of them. The other four are athletes and generally eat with their team slash aren’t around the college as much. We just had our “Freshman Olympics” and it was clear that everyone there (with was probably 40-50% of all freshman) really enjoyed being around their college mates and felt pride in their college. Each college has a dining hall, laundry room, “buttery” (late night eatery), courtyard (and most have hammocks), gyms, music practice rooms, art rooms, Masters, and Deans. The Master and the Dean are in charge of student life (both academic and personal) and are available to meet basically any time. I’ve met with my dean twice in the last 32 hours and I never had to wait more than 10 minutes for either meeting. They offer very wise advice and are really easy to talk to. I eat “at home” most nights and generally don’t make plans to eat with specific people; I just head down to the dining hall and sit in an open seat. It’s great to talk to different people about their interests and background over dinner: it’s incredible the number of incredible people you meet.</p>

<p>Yale engineering is nothing to sneeze at. The university has been dumping money into research for a few years now and it’s really starting to show. There is absolutely no problem getting research funding for the summer or a job in a lab during the school year. The $300mill (I think) Center for Engineering, Innovation, and Design was opened in August 2012 and provides collaborative work space for anyone who wants to use it (and wants to go through the orientation session).</p>

<p>In terms of NYC. The train ride is about a half and hour longer from New Haven than it is from Princeton, but the same goes for the residential colleges sponsoring trips. My college actually just did a day trip that included a train ticket, admission to the Museum of Modern Art, and a ticket to either a Broadway show or a baseball game, all for $20 (which is a STEAL).</p>

<p>With regards to the undergraduate focus: I personally think that having grad students around adds a lot to the feeling of campus. It’s nice to be able to talk to them and get a little perspective. They also know A LOT and are great resources. I’ve never felt like a professor cares more about his grad students than me and undergrads really don’t have problems getting positions in labs.</p>

<p>Let me know if you have any other questions about Yale!</p>

<p>Just a quick note about the train to NYC from Princeton. There is an on-campus train (called the Dinky) that meets the regular New Jersey Transit train to NYC. So, it’s not only a relatively short ride to NYC, it’s also quite convenient. And each of the Princeton residential colleges sponsors relatively inexpensive trips to NYC. For example, here’s the link to the Butler College trips <a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/butlercollege/student-life/trips/”>http://www.princeton.edu/butlercollege/student-life/trips/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I did a year abroad in Bejing two years ago, and the only schools that basically everyone knew were harvard, yale and stanford. This only matters if living abroad, though. Similarly, such high and close rankings are largely negligible. </p>

<p>just wanted to say…weather at yale is not significantly different from princeton…they are all in the same general area…90 minutes apart…Do they have princeton alumni events in your area? I know they had admit events in India.
As an international student, also look into the international community in both places. I think they are both great…I would tilt a bit towards yale…congrats, great choices.</p>

<p>Hey uheaven, I’m a Princeton pre-frosh who visited Yale and can tell you that you can’t go wrong here. Yale and Princeton are both spectacular. That you can’t visit Princeton is absolutely tragic, and I think that not paying for your visit is a dumb policy–especially when they want you as much as your upcoming classmates do (and that’s a lot).</p>

<p>Here’s my story, for what it’s worth:</p>

<p>Princeton’s campus is impossibly beautiful. Architecture there is stunning and the trees and grassy courtyards are gorgeous. Most people seem to agree that we have the prettier campus. I overnighted with a freshman friend and absolutely loved everything I did and all the people I met. By the time I left the next afternoon, I had declared Princeton my favorite place in the world. (This coming from someone who travels abroad and who really, really loves a lot of places.)</p>

<p>This visit came two days before I could check my decision letter, so leaving made me feel a bit blue. I didn’t think I’d be back. I visited Yale later that same week and didn’t feel the same magic. But others do, so go with what your heart says. My prom date is a Yale/Princeton cross admit, too, and I’m 90% sure she’s choosing Yale. “Different strokes for different folks,” I’ve heard it said.</p>

<p>It sounds like you only know Yale through its campus, so I’m sure that if you’d seen Princeton instead you’d love it even more. But liking the campus is not a guarantee of liking the school, so do try to decide which environment you’d like better socially. For what it’s worth, Princeton does not accept transfer applicants, so if you were to change your mind at Yale you’d be out of luck. Yale does accept transfers. I seriously doubt you’ll want to leave either school once you’re there, but I do think that Princeton’s high retention rate, inability to accept transfer applicants, and especially its alumni giving rate all speak to the fact that people have extraordinary experiences there.</p>

<p>Other data to absorb with a grain of salt:</p>

<p>Apparently two-thirds of students faced with the same decision choose Yale:
<a href=“Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.”>Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.;

<p>School populations:</p>

<p>princeton undergrads: 5000
princeton grads: 2500</p>

<p>yale undergrads: 5000
yale grads: 6000</p>

<p>^ This objective data may underscore the subjective US News ranking that Princeton has a higher quality of undergraduate education. Undergrads really are the focus of the University.</p>

<p>Last, I don’t have time to dig through my search history, but I recently saw a post on CC where a poster tallied up the overall US News rankings for the past fifteen or twenty years. Lower numbers mean a higher rank, and the total scores were this: Princeton 22, Harvard 24, Yale 40-something. I don’t think that matters too much, but if you think it does, you shouldn’t take my word, or his. Tally it yourself.</p>

<p>Let us know what you decide. Your peers at both universities are very hopeful that you’ll join us. :)</p>

<p>Also useful is this post by modest423 in March 2012:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Denlah (and uheaven)</p>

<p>Just a quick note about the “revealed preference” study. The parchment website is completely unclear about methodology, but as far as I am aware, the revealed preference data is from a survey done in 1999 or 2000 and has never been redone <a href=“http://www.nber.org/papers/w10803.pdf”>http://www.nber.org/papers/w10803.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I don’t think that there is any current, legitimate information about the number of students admitted to both schools who prefer Princeton over Yale and vice versa. </p>

<p>The student choice ranking for 2014 from Parchment is here: <a href=“http://www.parchment.com/c/college/college-rankings.php?page=1&perPage=25&thisYear=2014”>http://www.parchment.com/c/college/college-rankings.php?page=1&perPage=25&thisYear=2014&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Hi everyone :smiley: Thank you so much for all the input! It was a very, very difficult decision given how completely amazing these two institutions are but, in the end, the stronger engineering program, the undeniable alumni affection and (I guess somewhat) ‘the lure of the unknown’ among so many other factors made me enroll at Princeton. Literally can’t wait for the next four years.</p>

<p>And @Denlah, thanks for input mate! Really appreciate it. Hope to see you there in the fall :smiley: (But now that I think about it, we wouldn’t really even know if we met haha)</p>

<p>For any future cross-admits who stalk this thread, I’ll just repeat what @Denlah‌ said: ‘you can’t go wrong here’.</p>

<p>But choose Princeton.</p>

<p>uheavan - I have had the privilege to have both of my Daughters attend Princeton. My oldest graduated in 2013, had a P55 fellowship this year and will be attending Columbia for her masters in the Fall. My youngest is a Junior - one more year. You will have the best four years, so Happy for you. After my first experience with Reunions during Graduation week last year, I can tell you there is Nothing like it. A community/network that you will always be a part of. Best wishes!!!</p>

<p>Uheaven - Congratulations on your decision. I believe you will have a spectacular four years at Princeton -welcome to the Princeton community!</p>