Again you’re wrong about so much about what they tell alums and alum experiences when legacies don’t choose ED. You are completely misinformed about the Robertson process which would be entire other post. I’m obviously debating with someone who has very incomplete information. You have no idea if this student is a semi finalist since those aren’t selected in December and the selection doesn’t involve the admissions committee at Duke or UNC. You’re also wrong about non-binding EA offers the student got. There was champagne but I do think this student is still hoping for Duke. It was their first choice and still is from what I was told.
hopefully @ApplestoApples89 lives in NC with excellent low cost options of UNC for liberal arts or NC State for engineering 
I’ve seen a kid with 36/ACT 1600 SAT who was crushed at Dook so it’s not the end of the world. and yes ED is clearly for the schools; can you imagine if everyone applied to every elite school and then tried to negotiate financial aid with each of them/comparing them?
Also you’re so naive if you think Duke just takes the best of the best. Wow that’s just so naive and misinformed. ?
That’s a really good point anon145. I don’t want to say where the student lives but ED is a scheme and it’s borderline unethical to pressure these students and their families so intensely and then pull the rug out. Horrible. Then you get people who come on to diss the student and say well they must not be that great. Or how about, “There’s nothing arbitrary about Duke admissions.” or “They only take the best of the best.” ?
I’m confused. The linked article says that international students made up 6% of those admitted this year ED to Duke, which is the same percent as last year. https://today.duke.edu/2017/12/duke-accepts-875-early-decision-applicants
@SJ2727 - was the eye roll in response to my recommendation to treat all college mailings as junk mail or to the rant of the guy who stalks UChicago discussions (at least he didn’t go into the thing where he calls it the “North Korea of Higher Education” this time)?
If you disagree with the junk mail label or advice, let me know what I’m missing. I ignored it for my first son and that worked out fine, but my younger son will be going through this in a few years so tell me if a change in tactics is warranted.
Apples to apples… Actually I have personal experience with all of the above including Robertson. Lived it. Nominated through Duke admissions last year.
Both Duke admissions and UNC refer several exceptional students to the Robertson committee directly. The vast majority apply directly.
In terms of alumni communication “informal” discussions. No I don’t know your one off conversations but I do know Duke’s official communication to alumni. “While alumni affiliation by no means ensures acceptance to Duke, the university values meaningful connection to Duke and its traditions and does note alumni status when reviewing applications”. So you get a bump or greater scrutiny but no promises made. All of the competitive schools openly discuss the need for legacy kids to apply ED to receive the full benefit of legacy status. I have heard it directly from Dean Guttentag in response to a persistent alum’s question of “how do I give me DS his best likelihood of success”?
So again sorry for your disappointme to but those are the facts.
Let me guess if your student had gotten in then it wouldn’t have been arbitrary. I hope once your kid finds a great school people don’t suggest he/she was just lucky.
@suzy100 It’s hard to say because they said the total admitted students of color was 46% and international was 6%, (last year I was told the combination of those two was around 42 or 44%, but this year its 52%). Of course obviously some students of color are also International applicants so I was wrong to say exactly how much it increased by. They didn’t give enough information.
@ApplestoApples89 the bottom line is all the elite schools have 25% of their class with literally perfect scores. (best data on nces.gov ) They all cap the number of asians (except for CalTech) and internationals. Everything else, if you aren’t a recruited athlete or Jared Kushner’s dad level donor is a crapshoot. It is crazy that Chicago had 15,000 early round applications. At least for EA public schools (e.g. UNC) you are still allowed to apply to privates ED or EA. If people don’t think jacking up application numbers and rejecting a lot help at least indirectly in rankings for USNews they are delusional. Berkeley was always perceived/“ranked” above UCLA. Not anymore. UCLA for no apparent reason emailed my kid relentlessly (out of state), so did Chicago.
In fairness to Duke, it’s not the only school that only gives legacies a boost if they apply ED. Cornell and Penn do the same thing and there are probably others as well. In fact, Cornell comes right out and tells legacy applicants who are deferred ED that they will no longer receive any boost during the RD round. Of course if you couldn’t get in with the boost during ED, it probably doesn’t bode well for your chances without the boost RD.
Actually, a lot of test-optional colleges DO require all first-years to report scores once they’ve matriculated. I know Wesleyan does and it’s hard to imagine UChicago wouldn’t, too.
@circuitrider I assume there are some kids that may never take them?
@Nocreativity1 Once again your facts are tied to your own experience and you have no idea how many alums have experienced and been told directly what I said. And frankly it’s irrelevant if you were nominated as a Robertson Scholar. How is that relevant? You said this student would be a Robertson Scholar semi finalist if they were so great. You have no idea if the student is or isn’t a semi finalist. Those notices don’t go out until later. Robertson evaluates applicants on its own application and only has access to the Duke or UNC applications later on. You seem to believe Duke selects who gets chosen to be a semi finalist. That’s wrong. The only thing you wrote that’s accurate is that students apply for the scholarship. I’m not responding to anymore of your posts because you are a person who benefited from the admissions process and so you believe that must mean Duke only accepts “the best of the best.” That’s what we used to call ‘begging the question’ back when the phrases was used correctly. Let me give you a hint: it’s not necessarily true that the student I know isn’t phenomenal. It’s not necessarily true that you are. In either case, (assuming you are highly qualified), “factors beyond your control” very likely determined their deferral and your acceptance.
applestoapples “ED is a scheme and it’s borderline unethical to pressure these students and their families so intensely and then pull the rug out. Horrible. Then you get people who come on to diss the student and say well they must not be that great. Or how about, “There’s nothing arbitrary about Duke admissions.” or “They only take the best of the best.” ?”
“Scheme”, “unethical”, “pulling the rug out”, “horrible” all because of being deferred as a legacy…talk about entitled.
No one is “dising” anyone. Saying they accept the best of the best conveys that all of the kids applying are great! Including those deferred and or rejected.
Take a deep breath. The kids that got in didn’t cheat, Duke didn’t lie, and your student is exceptional. Unfortunately in comparison to others the AO didn’t see them as standing out enough (in spite of legacy status) to be accepted. It happens to most kids in spite of them "doing everything within their control.
And to your above continued misstatements my son didn’t “benefit” from the admissions process. He earned it just as your student I am sure did. When he experienced rejection I would not have tolerated him blaming others.
In terms of Robertson its relevant that the AOs do differentiate students in a rigorous non arbitrary manner. Factuality in February a group of students who have not applied directly to Robertson but have applied to UNC and Duke are identified by the admissions offices at each school and advanced to the Robertson Committee as semi finalists. It is available on the Robertson website.
You are letting your emotions get the better of you. No one suggested anyone was phenomenal or that others weren’t.
You however seem to be suggesting that as a Duke alumnus you were promised admissions and I simply do not believe that.
“Seriously, they’re just junk mail like any other unsolicited stuff you receive from the local carpet cleaner or pizza place”
Whoa there, I actually just used the coupon from the pizza place, if you want to say pizza mailings are junk ok, but do not put them in the same category as college mailings.
“.”
Your best post on this forum!
@anon145 I completely agree with you. I actually don’t think the US News ranking is that accurate. They don’t include liberal arts colleges which makes no sense. I look at it, and many others before deciding where I think a school really ranks. I don’t think Chicago is the 3rd best university in America for example but Stanford is 7th or 8th. That doesn’t reflect reality.
ccdad99, 1NJParent is correct. MIT applicants are self-selected and a different pool than those who are simply trying to decide amongst the top 10 schools in terms of which is the top rated school they’d otherwise be rejected from if not for applying early (Eeny, Meeny, Miny, Moe Which would early give me a shot at, I’d like to know). MIT does not use the Common App, so simply checking isn’t going to do it. And, it is also not true that EA candidates at MIT have “zero” chance of being admitted. MIT does not favor or consider legacy status (or development prospects). Athletes and every other applicant offering up a rare desired ability/talent/attribute must still reach a high bar since they must still pass 2 courses in calculus (Math for athletes isn’t offered), 2 courses in physics (no “science for a new world” offered instead), bio, chem, etc. So even athletes must have done very well in high level high school science and math classes. Given the amount of time most athletes spend on their sport, doing well in such difficult classes suggests a considerable level of aptitude & motivation. Obviously it’s not true that the early applicants have “zero” chance-> the admit rate for those applying EA is higher than that for those applying RA when you consider the total admit rate of those applying EA compared to the admit rate of those applying RA.
Early in this thread someone said EA was more competitive at Georgetown than RA. I would be very grateful if someone could explain this to me.
“As you can see, US News is not good at measuring undergraduate programs.”
They may not be, but they’re standard, and any other ranking will have their flaws. I stopped fighting the US News bandwagon when I got a mail from a hospital using the US News ranking logo and ranking on its mailings, to justify or at least partially justify selecting it. This is all they do, the rankings, and their marketing of rankings is better, by a wide margin, than anybody else’s, including WSJ, Forbes, et al.
Pretty soon, RD for certain schools will be eliminated, then EA/ED will move into HS junior years. lol