What do people see as the advantages and disadvantages of BA/MD and BS/MD programs?
I was selected to interview at a few programs, and am waiting to hear. I have also been admitted at some schools that I like, and am waiting to hear from other schools, so I’m just trying to think ahead and get a sense of what I should factor into my eventual decision.
Big pros are the guaranteed path to MD/DO school. Also, the cost savings (dollars and time) of not having to apply to many MD/DO schools.
Some of the pros will depends on the specific program:
Potential downsides:
If the student decides the MD/DO piece isn’t for them, is the undergrad school they are at a good fit for them? Some of the undergrad schools are far from selective/prestigious…that isn’t per se important but something for a very strong student, like the kind who are competitive for these programs, to consider.
Cost. Sometimes there is relatively little financial aid for the undergrad school. Also, how will the student pay for MD/DO school? If they are a very strong student, perhaps they would have been competitive at one of the free med schools and/or their less expensive in-state MD/DO school.
Relatively few choices of major. These programs tend to be highly structured with only a few major choices. We know that students do better when they major in something they like, so make sure the major choices make sense for you.
Some other options you might consider are colleges with early assurance programs, either in house or with a partner school. Also could consider attending a LECOM undergrad school. Remember, most physicians did not go thru a BSMD or BSDO program.
Good luck as you go thru the process.
And as noted…most doctors go the regular route of undergrad school, and then medical school.
@WayOutWestMom what did I miss?
I think 2 above answers pretty much touched on all the big issues.
At many BS/MD programs, about 1/3 to 1/2 of students opt to drop because they change their mind about medicine as a career as they get greater exposure to the nitty gritty of medical practice and learn about other potential careers that don’t require a young person to give up their 20s and early 30s to medicine.
Medicine is a long haul with little time off until the end of residency. BS/MD programs often require summer classes or involvement with specific summer activities. You’re stepping on a treadmill that is very difficult to get off of. You won’t have time to kick back and explore new interests/activities/relationships for at least the next 12-18 years. Be sure you’re ready to do that.
Understatement. Except for Brown, all the top undergrads have ended their BS/MD programs. Most of these mid ranked unis are using their BS/MD program to attract high achieving students who otherwise would never consider attending.
Maybe some time saving, but usually no cost savings since nearly all BS/MDs are at private universities that have high COAs. Unless you’re getting substantial merit to reduce your undergrad costs, you may be passing up big scholarship money at equivalently ranked universities.
Also private med schools are $$$$$. ( Most are currently in the $90-130K/year range and the price will likely higher in 4 years) Since you won’t get to see what other schools you may be able to gain an acceptance to as a college grad (like less expensive state med schools or free tuition med schools), you’re locked into attending the med school associated with the undergrad.
Think hard about costs since unless your parents can pay for private med school OOP, you’ll be taking on a ton of debt for undergrad and medical school.
BTW, it’s a myth that physicians are “easily” able to repay student loans. It’s not uncommon for physicians to finish paying off their student loans about the time their children are enrolling in college. (Think age mid-50s.)
Yes, but I was talking about the application fees and process. That can run $7k-$10k for many MD/DO applicants and be quite time intensive.
This is such an important point!!
A bit on the high side since in-person interviewing really hasn’t been revived. Most interviews are done via Zoom.
Per AMCAS, the typical cost for 1 round of 25 applications is around $6K.
(And AMCAS offers grants to pay for MCAT prep, MCAT testing, application & secondary fees for students who meet income guidelines.)
I was surprised by your statement that nearly all are private, because that isn’t true of the ones I applied to, the majority of which are public.
I found this list and unless it’s really inaccurate 3/4 of them are public.
Also, I was surprised how little tuition difference there was between public and private for medical school. If I just look at the schools closest to me, leaving off Temple because it’s a public/private hybrid. I get the following (these are from AI, so they could be wrong)
Private:
Drexel: $110,939
GWU: $102,810 to $108,572
Howard: $96,971
Private
Rowan “Close to or over $100,000 annually
UMD $119,000
VCU $99,546
I’ll note that obviously if I had an instate option that would be significantly cheaper, but I don’t.
Also, I won’t qualify for need based aid for undergrad, but several of the schools on that list are schools where I would expect to get a lot of merit aid if I just applied for undergrad. That’s another advantage of going to a school where your stats are very high. Would I not get similar aid in the undergrad portion of a combined degree? Do they reason that offering you guaranteed admissions means they don’t have to lure you with merit aid?
I do understand that there’s a decent chance I’ll drop the medical school plan and then I need to consider whether the school is one I’d want to stay at. I hadn’t really thought of that.
Also, I guess it’s conceivable that if I didn’t do guaranteed admit, I could end up getting into a tuition-free med school, but while I love that idea I assume it’s less likely than the possibility that I don’t get into any med school.
Of course, I also haven’t gotten in to any combined degree program, so all this is just wishful thinking. Hopefully I’ll have that choice!
Thank you everyone for your thoughts. I am thinking about all of them!
Here are a few additional thoughts I had.
Pros of guaranteed admission:
I want children one day, so the length of training worries me a little. It seems like many students need to add a year or two between college and med school, so a guaranteed admission option, depending on whether it’s 7 years or 8, could conceivably reduce the time by 1 - 3 years.
It seems like if had a guaranteed medical school spot (even though I know it’s not really guaranteed because there are minimum GPA’s etc . . . ) I could be a little more relaxed about what I do during undergrad. Not a lot more relaxed, but I’d have a clear view of the thresholds I’d need to hit for things like service, clinical experience etc . . . , rather than feeling a lot of pressure to get the most hours, or worrying about which clinical experience is more impressive etc . . . I don’t really know if that’s true, but it seems like it would be true.
If I want something specific for my medical school, like staying close to home, or an urban setting, or whatever, I’m more likely to get it. (e.g. if I got into Howard combined degree, and continue to medical school at Howard, I’m guaranteeing both of those things!).
Advantages to doing undergrad and grad separately (besides the ones laid out here, which again, I really appreciate and am thinking about)
If I do my undergraduate, and any related things like research with a professor, or shadowing at the hospital, at the same university as med school, I may encounter fewer perspectives than if I go to two different schools.
I might learn something about myself as a learner, or about medical school or the medical field, while I am undergrad that would lead me to choose a different medical school if I had that option.
I won’t have my first choice undergrad program the way I could if money and medical school weren’t factors. Having said that, the schools I’d pick if money and medical school weren’t factors are crazy expensive. I’m in a good situation financially compared to a lot of people, but I definitely don’t have enough money for 4 years of full tuition at someplace like Georgetown, and 4 years of medical schools, with less than that $200K allowed in loans.
That’s a big “conceivably” because the length of your residency, and a potential fellowship might need to be added depending on your specialty.
Many of these programs have a minimum GPA…so please check that before you “relax”…I’m not sure what that means!
That’s IF you get accepted in the first place. These programs are highly competitive.
Money is going to be a factor for the medical school part of your schooling regardless. Remember, federally funded loans are now limited to a grand total of $200,000 including any federally funded undergrad loans. And the annual limit is $50,000. These federally funded loans will not fund medical school costs, so please have a financial plan for doing so.
I’m want to add…there are costs and they just go on and on…for those wishing to become doctors. Tons of required tests that all cost money, for example.
You are currently a high school senior so presumably the decisions where to apply have already been made. Good luck to you as you start receiving admission decision.
Please do let us know where you land!
Also, I was surprised how little tuition difference there was between public and private for medical school.
You’re comparing OOS costs at public med schools to private med schools. There will be very little difference between an OOS public and a private. However, most students have at least one in-state public medical school they can apply to. Instate will reduce COA by $20-30K/year–which is a substantial $80-$120K over the 4 years of med school.
As a resident of an area with no public med schools, you could take a single gap year between undergrad and med school and establish residency in another state. This is a common practice students employ to find less expensive options or better odds for med school admission.
For example, you could move to TX, which has 14 public medical schools and the some of the lowest COA around. Tuition at TX medical school is around or under $25K/year. New Mexico, West Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina all also offer similarly inexpensive public med school options.
Would I not get similar aid in the undergrad portion of a combined degree?
Maybe, but also, since you’re going to go there for the BS/MD program the school has little incentive to sweeten the deal by offering merit aid. IOW, BS/MD students often get less merit money than might get at a similarly ranked undergrad where there isn’t a BS/MD program.
the length of training worries me a little.
Snipping off 1 or even 2 years isn’t going to make a huge difference in the length of your training. A lot of training length depends on choices YOU make about what specialty and fellowship(s) you decide to pursue. Also if you want to get on an academic track and become a med school professor–that requires additional research and training which will extend your training period.
I’d have a clear view of the thresholds I’d need to hit for things like service, clinical experience etc . . . , rather than feeling a lot of pressure to get the most hours, or worrying about which clinical experience is more impressive etc . . . I don’t really know if that’s true, but it seems like it would be true.
None of this is true, BS/MD program don’t tell student you need to get 75 hours of clinical exposure doing X and 20 of shadowing in specialty Z or 100 hours working at community service program A. Programs simply aren’t that explicit.
As for choosing the most hours and the most impressive experiences—that’s all horse hockey balls. Adcomms are more interested in what you’ve learned thru your clinical and community service hours than the number of them you’ve racked up. They want to see what kind of empathy, compassion and personal growth you’ve developed as your life experiences have broadened. It’s not some sort of nuclear arms race where the person with most hours wins a med school admission.
Ditto for “impressive” activities. It’s really not a competition. Adcomm want to see what activities and community services you’ve engaged in to understand why you want to be a doctor, not to see who has garnered the most awards. Often it’s students who have engaged in humble, unimpressive activities–changing adult diapers as a CNA or translating for & guiding families lost in the bureaucratic hospital paperwork maze or running needle exchange program for addicts in a rural community-- that are most well regarded by adcomms.
OK, you didn’t like some of what I had to say–and that’s fair, but let me also say my piece.
I dislike BS/MD programs and would never recommend them to anyone I know. I think they are predatory, preying on the fears and hopes of young persons. BS/MD programs lock a young person whose interests have not yet been tested and whose judgment is not yet matured into a 8 year long, very expensive commitment at a school that may not be their best fit or best financial option. It locks them into enormous debt–which is something that I think most 17 or 18 year olds really don’t conceptualize very well.
(No offense to you any other young person, but your prefrontal cortex has not yet matured which means your emotional regulation, your impulse control and your ability to make complex, long term, well reasoned decisions really just aren’t fully developed yet to be making a lifelong commitment to something you don’t have any real experience with.)
One daughter saved at the high end of this range by getting in-state pricing for a DVM program. This was a very significant saving over four years (with a very good program). This was preceded by attending an undergraduate school that had offered her a very good merit scholarship. Over 8 years of university the savings added up to quite a bit (and helped her get to the point where they call her “doctor” without her being loaded up with excessive debt). 8 years is a lot of time in university.
This was exactly what our daughter did before applying to DVM programs. We live in a state that does not have a public DVM program. She wanted to move anyway so she moved west and first established residency. Then she applied.
So moving to a state with a good public MD program is one option. Moving to a WICHE state is another option. If the latter, then definitely check first what the WICHE options are for whatever state you move to.
One issue: There are a LOT of alternatives to medical school, even for someone who is interested in medical issues. Getting an MD or DO and then completing residency is a long path. You should be very sure that you want to do it before you commit yourself to this path. This is only one of several reasons why taking a gap between a bachelor’s degree and getting an MD can often be a good idea (and is very common).
Two things that we noticed about the same time that our daughter, and some of her friends, got their DVMs. One is that this is a very difficult and demanding and exhausting and expensive path. The other was that when they got their DVMs they were veterinarians already. This is in strong contrast with getting an MD or DO, at which point there are still multiple years of residency ahead of you. As one example I noticed at one point that my oncologist had seven years of residency and oncology fellowship after getting an MD. This is a long path. You really need to want to do it. You need to be driven to do it (he was driven to do it, and is very good).
Most students who start university thinking “premed” end up doing something else. Some can’t keep up the medical-school worthy GPA in the very tough premed classes. However, some just end up finding something else that they would rather do. Some get into advanced lab courses in university and find that they would rather do biomedical research in a lab. Some decide to be an optometrist instead (my optometrist specifically mentioned this to me at one point).
To me it seems like we each find our own way in life, but this can take a while. I have known a few people who knew what they wanted to do when they were in high school, and stuck with it. I have known a lot more people who knew what they wanted to do when they were in high school, and ended up doing something different. Then there are those of us who when in high school had no idea what we wanted to do. I was in this last camp. Then I ended up doing something that did not even exist when I was in high school.
I understand that you can start in a BS/MD program or a BS/DO program and then pivot to something else. Perhaps my main thoughts on this is that for someone who is certain that they want to be a doctor starting in a BS/MD program is probably not that large of a benefit over starting in a more typical BS program – you can get to the same place either way. I do not think that I would start at a university that is more expensive or at a university that was a less-good-fit just because they have a BS/MD program.
Best wishes. It sounds like you already have some very good options.
Medicine is VERY long path.
D1’s med school roommate is just now finishing up her 16th of 17 years of post undergraduate training for her desired specialty. MD/PhD (8 years), followed by a 3 residency in IM, followed by 1 year fellowship in addiction medicine, followed by a 3 year fellowship in gastroenterology and now a 2 year transplant hepatology fellowship. She has lived in 6 different states, moving for each stage of her education & training, since finishing undergrad. Once her fellowship finishes up, she will likely have to move again because she wants a career in academic medicine.
You mention upthread that you would like to stay close to home. In medicine, you need to realize that that might not be possible.
Residency and fellowship placements are made by a computer algorithm. While you can indicate a preference to stay in a certain area, matching to a particular location is never guaranteed and in some fields may not be possible.
My kid started medical school in 2015, and started their first real attending job in August 2025. “Only” ten years. 5 years of medical school (did a fifth year scholars program of teaching, research and mentoring), 3 year residency, 2 year fellowship (which included a MPH).
And heaven knows how many $$ tests she took!!
Medicine is not a career for young folks who have “quality of life” preferences in the early years.
Yeah, all those 30 hour long overnight shifts and 80+ hour work weeks really aren’t conducive to a good work-life balance.
I am saying, let’s say I get into a 7 year program. I start at 21, and finish at 28. Then I do a 4 year residency, and a 2 year fellowship. I finish at 34.
On the other hand if I do a 4 year bachelor’s degree, take a gap year to strengthen my application. If I choose the same specialty, I’ll finish at 36. If I want to have children, that’s a significant difference. Yes, they’re both long. Yes, I could change my path and it could be longer, but those two years matter to me.
I don’t mean relax in terms of grades. I know that completing the prerequisites is hard, and the gpa targets are high.
But at the schools where I did the interviews, it does seem like there is mentoring, and that mentor can give you guidance as to what kind of experiences to seek out, and what you need to do to keep your admission to the medical school.
Yes, which is why I didn’t really look deeply at the programs until now. If I had a school on my list, and it had a combined degree program I applied to it, but I figured it was a total long shot.
But now I have had 2 interviews, and I have one more scheduled. One school’s statistics say that 7% of applicants get interviews, but of the people they interview about 50% get in. So, it feels like I have shot. Not a sure thing, but it seems more possible, which is why I’m asking questions and trying to decide if that’s actually what I want.
I’m a little confused here, because you cut my reference to the $200K out of your quote and then told me there is a $200K cap.
Yes, I know money is a factor. It’s a huge factor. What I was trying to say is that even if I don’t get into, or turn down the BA or BS/MD programs, money is still a huge factor. It’s going to impact my choices either way, and will mean that I probably won’t go to a highly selective undergrad because they tend to not give good merit, and I won’t qualify for need based aid.
As far as my plan, my parents tell me they have about $400K saved. I can choose how to use it. So, my hope is to go to a school with merit and/or DCTAG so that I can keep most of it, and work while an undergrad so I can keep even more. Then I’ll look at ways to save money on medical school. That might mean looking at a local school and living at home. That might mean choosing a less expensive medical school if I get into one. My guess is that even with these measures, I’ll need to borrow, but hopefully not as much.
I have a number of acceptances that I would feel good about attending. Some of them I’ve heard about merit, and some I haven’t. I have a few schools where I am waiting to hear. I’m also waiting to hear about the combined degree programs at the schools where I have interviewed or will interview.
Thanks!
I live in DC. I don’t have an instate public medical school. So, I am comparing the costs I would have to pay at various schools. I realize other people would pay less.
That’s an idea. I will look into it.
That would obviously factor into my decision. At this point, I don’t know what to do about that other than waiting to see all the aid offers.
No, but the programs make it sound like they have some kind of mentoring where you get feedback as to whether you’re on track.
I’m not sure why you say that. I thanked you for your comment and asked for clarification on two things. One is the idea that the majority of BA/MD programs are private, when that doesn’t seem to be true based on what I can find. The other is that private schools always cost more, which doesn’t seem to be true in the specific case of DC residents.
Staying close to home for medical school would make living at home and saving money possible. That doesn’t mean that I’m not willing to live elsewhere during residency or later in my career. It means that if everything were equal, and I was choosing between a school where I had a free place to live, I’d pick that.
It is possible that this is no longer true, but based on previous posts it seems that you are thinking of getting married right after undergrad.
I think it is important to understand what this might entail. I have a family member who is married and doing a four year residency right now. This family member rarely sees their spouse. It’s tough, but they knew going in.