@DoyleB: Yes, the students out here are very impressive and it shows in the great UC system. So assuming the unlikely comes to pass (only 70% of the 99+ cohort left for the rest of the country)…which high scoring states are most likely to get dumber 
@kyrieIrving2, refer u to post #4125, page 275
Interestingly, CA had 176K out of 1.47M PSAT entrants, resulting in appx 12% of the national total. Out of this, the percentage of student at the commended level was about 18% (6644 out of total 36948). Compared to this, TX had 13.5% (199383) entrants, but 9% (3311) contribution to the commended level in 2014 PSAT. So obviously, CA is doing well at the top.
@OHToCollege
The numbers were very similar in 2013: CA had 11.5% of the entrants, 11.8% of nmsf, and 17.9% of commended.
By contrast, Wyoming had 1 commended but 26 SF, and West Virginia had 0 commended and 88 SF. Reason enough to move anyone?!
@OHToCollege, the two schools I think you are referring to (TAMS and St. Johns) combined had 21%, not 52%. I think you added 27% and 25% from the wrong chart (which is percentage of their school who were SF). The pie chart shows the percentage of the Houston area as 11% and 10% for the two schools.
21% for 2 schools is still a large number.
The College Board site is still down (they had said it was supposed to come up at noon). As someone who works in the IT world - I can tell you that an outage during normal business hours means they have SERIOUS technical issues. I don’t have a lot of faith on the any of their estimates for scoring the upcoming new SAT by mid-May. Hopefully, the test stays very close to the PSAT and practice SATs so my kid scores a 1480 and we can be done with these stupid standardized testing companies who have ALL bitten off more than they can chew (SAT more than ACT, but both have issues).
@micgeaux with post #4388, I do not think we’re in the weed, we come here to share info and look for answers that we may not have… Most CC posters in this thread are very knowledgeable and I learn a lot from reading their posts. Now I can can explain to my parents and friends about this NMF process much easier. Thank to all of you
@OHToCollege I am not a statistical expert or even a novice but when you talk about those states like Wyoming and West Virginia keep in mind : 1) The small numbers of test takers in those states (Maybe 1.5K-2K) for an average year. 2) The small number of semifinalists (26SF compared to thousands for the larger states). The variance can be much more extreme.
Also, I get it that it’s “National” Merit and some people feel the cutoff should be the same across the board. I disagree. That simply rewards affluence. Let’s be honest that a lot of, if not the majority of the National Merit awards go to kids who attend either expensive private schools or attend affluent “top notch” public schools. I’m sure plenty of them spend thousands on exam prep as well. That’s a luxury few can afford. So now we want to take away from kids who didn’t have these opportunities? I don’t pretend to be an expert on the school systems in Wyoming or North Dakota but I’m going to assume they aren’t on par with the high end New Jersey, California, etc. systems and I would expect family incomes of those award winners to be drastically different as well.
Instead of us moving to North Dakota with the advantage of having a superior education from Day 1 to “game” the system, imagine us living there from day one and seeing how we’d fare if we were only give resources of the ND students. If you/your child is attending a lower ranked school in California then believe me
I feel your pain. The fair way to do it would be to award the scholarships by district. Each state would have the same number of students receive awards but it would pit kids from the elite schools against each other instead of against the public school kids who come from impoverished areas, many of whom are more concerned with not getting murdered than PSAT prep. Go ahead and post the national scores but award the scholarships differently. After all the kid who barely misses the cutoff in New Jersey is still going to ace the SAT and get into Cornell. The kid from Wyoming who just missed? Not likely.
BTW, I’m not judging you or anybody else because a million people have already thought the same thing including myself. If I truly knew I had no other way to pay for college I’d think about it. It’s just not right though.
I like that the NMSF’s are allocated by state. Think about the long term good this could do. Someone from a low performing state could get $ to help pay for education they could not otherwise afford. This person is more likely probably than other high achieving students to move back to the same state after they are educated. And they could be in a position to help improve the educational environment there. Of course, it would be ideal if all high achieving students needing financial aid could get money. They have all shown dedication and talent in their educational endeavors and all could benefit from more affordable college options. However, when funds are limited, helping high achieving students from underperforming states has an additional bonus.
Exactly. I was just trying to explain that the system is already kinda rigged against some lower performing states (due to lesser schools). I want every state to have the same number of scholarships. I live in Illinois and every year the ultra rich areas like Winnetka and Hinsdale coupled with some elite private schools garner the lions’ share of scholarships. A handful of the schools versus hundreds that do not get any. That’s a rigged game.
So apparently the national average score for the PSAT was 1009
Sorry if it has been asked, but what test prep programs does everyone use?
@newtothis3, Best of luck to your daughter! It sounds like you should be very proud of both of your kiddos.
It’s certainly not an ideal system. Even within the higher cut states, you will have underdogs, they just have a higher hurdle to exceed. My kids’ school really has no idea, and most of our locals think the PSAT can be taken any time throughout the year, so why bother to sign up for October? Even the staff are highly confused. A school an hour away has the highest number of NMSF in the state every year, while ours had just 2 in the last 12 years. I’m always happy to hear that kids make it though, whatever the circumstances. It’s a great deal when the planets align. I too wish we’d known more with the first kid, but that’s water under the bridge. I’m rooting for this class of 2017!
Thanks. That’s great news and I believe your daughter will have an excellent shot so please do not lose faith. Most of the kids who are here are very bright so it’s actually an awful measuring stick and easy to get discouraged so please don’t. Hearing that you had to take your daughter out of school to take the test at an entirely different school just reiterates what I’ve been saying. Those top end districts have an inordinate amount of resources and many even offer free test prep. I’m not kidding.
For many blue collar families (like mine) it’s very difficult if not impossible to spend thousands on a test prep service. Then I think of some of the really unfortunate who likely can barely afford the 15 bucks to even take the test and most less affluent school districts aren’t going to offer the test for free. It sounds unbelievable but believe me it’s more common than you think. That coupled with the lack of information that you spoke about is a big problem for these kids. Many people simply hear “PRACTICE” and ignore the test.
But actually your words below are really the essence of what I’m saying
“And, I might add that had my children come from a bigger school district or even known about ‘test prep’ resources, I believe they would even give some of the highest scores a run for their money.”
It’s just so true. Everyone is largely a product of their environment. If they are surrounded by others eager to learn and given the full gamut of resources there is no limit to what they can achieve. The other end is also true. I remember in 5th grade I transferred from the local public school to a private catholic school. I was literally more than a year behind in math. I had never even used fractions until I transferred. The difference was alarming to say the least. I always remember that when I think of these tests and the good fortune I had because my parents could afford to send me to a better school. It doesn’t make you smarter or more deserving, just better prepared. Plenty of kids at my old public school were just as bright if not brighter than me, they just didn’t have the resources going forward.
Whether the West Virginia kid gets a 195 and makes SF he’s no less deserving than a kid in D.C. who gets a 224. At least in my book. Nobody should be punished for coming from a good, successful family that provided them with a great education but let’s keep it in perspective when we’re talking about a kid in a Private New Jersey College Prep Academy being more deserving than a kid in a small town in North Dakota .
Good luck and best wishes!
My son did not use any test prep company- I just had him do the practice PSAT and a practice (new) SAT over the summer (late August). Then the weekend before the test in October, he did 2 more practice (new) SATs and read the tips from Khan academy.
He’s a good standardized test taker - has always been. I have not spent a dime on prep - we got the ACT prep books from the library. He prefers the new SAT because the material is the same or easier than ACT, and way more TIME to finish.
PS- The college board site has been down all afternoon!
@newtothis, @mozart6023. I am a kid, of course, a junior in HS. Seem like both of you mention recourse, private schools, bigger districts as contributing factors for NM (in this thread). Not about to disagree, but I see a different angle.
I came from a so …so ISD, to a better ISD (at least we think in term of bigger houses, better roads, higher income parents and etc). The truth about so called Better ISD, has much less budget, less resources compared to my former so…so ISD.
One thing I remembered the home builder told my parents “parents here are very different, they care their kid traditionally”. How does it effect PSAT scores and NM competition?
Talking about resource to train kids to take PSAT, we are equally access several web sites to have free lessons, free practices (that’s what I do). I believe kids and parents can access internet, access computers almost everywhere in US (from rural to big cities, from public libraries, from school libraries, at least for the last 3 years). I can see most of CC posters here are very concerned parents … that count.
Things is whether kids want to progress themselves, or whether parents want to pay attention to their kids’ education more than enough.
Do not count out parents’ factor and most of all kids’s self-motivation.
Please stop griping about not having thousands to spend on test prep. Anyone can prep for $15 or so. That’s what I spent. Having a lousy school system is harder to overcome, but a kid who is self motivated to read challenging material on their own and is willing to work through the math in the test prep book can succeed.