Not sure what’s going on with that College Board site - it was down at least part of yesterday too.
My D3 used just the Kahn Academy tool and the PSAT practice test plus two SAT practice tests. She was also coming off extensive ACT prep so that probably helped as well but she really felt that Kahn is sufficient to learn this stuff. She uploaded her PSAT results to her Kahn account and got started with SAT prep the other day and said that they started her on harder math that was tailored to where she was weak - that’s a GREAT tool!!!
I really like what the College Board has done by making Kahn free and accessible to everyone. I don’t know if it truly levels the playing field or not but it offers the opportunity which is a big step. I’m also glad that my kids have the opportunity to compete for National Merit with their peers. It’s true that NM is geographically diverse and so are many selective college acceptances which is something that kids have had to deal with for at least two generations now. The national merit designation opens up the doors to some good scholarship opportunities but the truth is that there is a LOT of money out there for high grades and SAT/ACT scores even w/o being National Merit.
@mathyone I’m not griping about anything. I simply heard several posters talking about wanting to move to West Virginia in order to qualify. That’s just not right. I’ll assume you’re a bright young man being that you are on the site and actually prepped for the test. I think anyone willing to do 10 seconds of research should be able to see that this is as I say a contest that is geared towards affluent families in affluent school districts. Check the statistics of winners and the schools they come from if you disagree.
Mathyone, I hate assuming anything but I’ll bet you are from at least a decent two parent household and were always a pretty bright kid. Sure a prep book and all of your years of education in likely at least an above average school may allow you to make national merit. Do you really think that a kid who comes from a high school with a graduation rate of south of 70% where the average reading level is 7th or 8th grade level had the same chance as you because they could’ve bought a 15 dollar prep book? Really? A prep book isn’t going to cut it when your fellow students are literally several years behind education-wise. There are exceptions for sure but they are rare. I just get tired of hearing about people complaining about those low scoring states.
I never intended my post to sound like a rant. I don’t care if Bill Gates’ kid is a National Merit Scholar. If he was in the top 1% in his state then by all means give him the award. The rules are set and everyone needs to play by them. But I’m just sick of hearing people complain about missing NM when they got a 215 but the kid from Wyoming got a 200 in the 96%.
This is getting off topic. I made my point but I challenge anyone to show me stats where there isn’t an overwhelming trend that shows that areas of concentrated wealth do not produce more NM scholars and higher scores in general than their less affluent counterparts. It’s well known that the graph of average test scores increase as family income increases. Sure there’s always a kid who had no father and was on welfare that scored a 2400 on his SATs but he is just an outlier.
Many of you @dallaspiano, suzyq, mamelot all have salient points. A great family upbringing is the greatest asset of these kids. The fact that you guys are even on this site is a testament to the fact that you care immensely about your kids and their future. Many kids simply don’t have that home. Not even close to it. I’ve been blessed enough to see both sides of the coin. I’ll let you get back to predicting your cut off scores. Just try and go easier on those low scoring states. They deserve recognition too.
@Mozart6023, while I do agree with your post, I’ve always wondered why NMC doesn’t do their cuts by poverty level quartiles. In PA at least, the school data is always published along with those quartiles. It makes sense when kids in the lower quartiles score a little lower. However, if that low quartile district happens to fall within a high scoring state, those kids don’t have a fair short. And surely there are at least a few high quartile districts in those low scoring states? I have nothing against lower areas having lower cuts, but deciding those areas based on state lines is not really the fairest way to do so.
@PAMom21 I haven’t heard of poverty level quartile data, so don’t know how far that extends beyond PA. Our schools list the percent of students eligible for federal free and reduced lunch. CA also now has the “unduplicated students” terminology, which is shorthand for the percentage of students who are not-yet-reclassified English learners, free and reduced lunch eligible, or foster kids, but without counting twice for kids in multiple categories.
@mozart6023 I support the different cutoffs for different states. Interesting that you put those words into my mouth. But I stand by my opinion that thousands of dollars of tutoring is not required to make NMSF.
Kids who are reading years below grade level are not kids who read a lot on their own (excepting significant learning disabilities). They don’t have a chance at NMSF, tutoring or no. I admit I haven’t been in the worst schools in this country, but the vast majority of schools do have books and at least a small library. But you can’t force kids to read.
@mathyone I hate to intrude but the amount of privilege coming out of your mouth right now is astonishing. Quite frankly, I don’t believe you can even have a reverent opinion on what kids in poverty can and cannot do based on their circumstances unless you lived it first hand. You make it seem like they have all the time and opportunities in the world to pick up a book and read it when in actuality they have much more important things like dealing with abusive/absentee parents, lack of food on the table, working odd hours for a job etc… As stated before you are a product of your surrounding and, yes, you take your education into your own hands but by the time kids are old enough and have reached a level of maturity to do so it may be too late. If you don’t have a parent or guardian advocating for you at a young age enough damage will already be done that it will be extremely difficult and almost impossible for even the most motivated students to make up the ground they lost during their younger years in time to perform well on these tests.
Well, coming from a CA public school which has had 2 NMSF in the last five years, I would say that I hope for the best next year as a Junior, but it seems that even in the last few years that the schools that perform extraordinarily well are what we here call the “Asian” schools. There are several schools in the area I live where the average SAT score is over 2200. These students over-prepare and are obsessively competitive at everything. It’s ridiculous to assume that a test prep book can help enough if you go to one of the “Mexican” schools literally blocks away. So, in short, the more Asian/Indian kids in CA for example, the less like anyone else can achieve NMF when there are a fixed number of winners. Just a thought in case people don’t know what’s going on here.
@mathyone First of all, I don’t believe I ever referred to you as one of the people who complained about the state cutoff. I simply mentioned I was tired of hearing about those complaints. You decided to chime in with a comment about me griping so I responded to that. I am not going to continue to argue with you. Your responses indicate an extreme lack of life experience (to be expected from a HS student).
I grew up in Chicago, in a neighborhood bordering Englewood. Englewood is one of ,if not the most dangerous places in this country to live. I would love to see you go to school for one week there, just to see what it’s like. Heck, one hour might be all you need. Most of these kids lack fathers, have brothers who were murdered or in jail, etc. Every day it seems on the news another kid is killed in the neighborhood. While many are gang members, many others are innocent victims. As I mentioned in a previous post, there are students that try to study and “make it out”. It’s a much more difficult road than the one you travel. At your school do you have to worry you may be shot on the way home for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Robbed at gunpoint? I’m doubting it. There was a statistic I heard today that was staggering to me and I grew up in the area. 5% of all CPS Students (Chicago Public School) are homeless. HOMELESS. That is for the entire city, not just the impoverished areas. In those areas I’m certain it is much higher.
If you want to argue once more that all these kids need to do is get motivated, read more books, and buy a 15 dollar prep book and they’ll have as good of a chance as you for NM then you are simply too young and inexperienced to understand the gravity of their situation. It’s not your fault. You’re young. One day hopefully you’ll see it more clearly. My daughter does. Even though we moved out of the city when she was young (she’s a sophomore now) , I often visit and take her with me and teach her about where she was born. She understands and appreciates the opportunities she has that others don’t.
@mathyone please do me just one favor. Thank your parents every day. You may not know it but you are extremely blessed to not only have their love and support but they are also giving you opportunities others will never have. I mean that sincerely. It’s hard to see it because everyone you grow up around probably has what you have. Only when you see what little some others have will you truly understand.
I’m putting this to bed. But I just wanted to say that I sincerely see all of the love the people on this site have for their children. It’s absolutely amazing. Rich, poor, black, white. It really doesn’t matter so long as you love your kids and encourage them to be the best students, and more importantly people, they can be. My apologies again if I sounded as if I was railing against wealthy individuals. I’m not. I hope one day my daughter ends up in that environment. The issue of the lower scoring states just struck a personal chord with me because I’ve seen plenty of good, smart kids that just never really had much of an opportunity.
@PAMom21 Very well stated. Much better idea than I put forth about districts and your statement below was great:
“However, if that low quartile district happens to fall within a high scoring state, those kids don’t have a fair short. And surely there are at least a few high quartile districts in those low scoring states? I have nothing against lower areas having lower cuts, but deciding those areas based on state lines is not really the fairest way to do so.”
I wish I would’ve said this in my original post. Pretty big oversight on my part. Thanks for pointing those facts out.
@mozart6023@icantsleep
I don’t want to underestimate the difficulties facing kids living in poverty in violent neighborhoods. But even middle-class kids are at some disadvantage compared to wealthy kids who can afford thousands of dollars of high quality individualized tutoring, or hundreds of thousands of dollars in college costs.
I believe CB partnered with Khan Academy to reduce some of the unfairness in the testing system.
Do you think that the Khan Academy SAT Prep improves the available prep options for underprivileged kids? Or do you think it is no more helpful than a $15 prep book?
@mathyone with post # 4423
“Please stop griping about not having thousands to spend on test prep. Anyone can prep for $15 or so. That’s what I spent. Having a lousy school system is harder to overcome, but a kid who is self motivated to read challenging material on their own and is willing to work through the math in the test prep book can succeed.”
Not defending @mathyone, but I believe @mathyone probably a kid (a junior).
@mathyone, you should learn how to to use your words, I believe you did not mean to disrespect others (especially to the concerned parents in this posters)
And I know what you tried to say with “but a kid who is self motivated to read challenging material on their own and is willing to work through the math in the test prep book can succeed.”
The following link supports your statement and it shows how hard it is to be in less advantage supporting situations (other posters mentioned), and to train himself/herself to the extreme ends (99.54%tile in PSAT scores for a shot at NMF)
@Plotinus. Very, very true. My daughter is in that boat. We are a decidedly middle class family. Her school will typically have anywhere from 0-2 NM scholars out of 450 or so. In regards to Khan, I can’t really say definitively but every resource helps. I understand there will never truly be a totally fair system as we live in an imperfect world. My original post was directed at someone (hopefully jokingly) suggesting moving from a high scoring state to a lower scoring state to qualify when they otherwise wouldn’t and “game” the system. That to me would just make a system that already has some biases even more unfair. Hopefully, as in any good business, the NM folks are constantly looking for ways to improve.
