<p>What happens with the “group or pack” behaviour is you have an instigator, who seldom does the serious bullying, but is the instigator, who mainipulates, goads etc, but is often not caught </p>
<p>THey are the ones who make the comments to others, challenge people to do things, spread the rumors, etc, but are seen as sweet or innocent by others</p>
<p>So having the bully (the front man) talk, well, the instigator often just laughs at them, and finds another to take their place for awhile</p>
<p>having seen it at my Ds elementary/middle school with little consequences, and tears from the bullies, I know that it takes some real work to get bullies to stop</p>
<p>:( Sadly, I don’t think this is so far off most instances of bullying. Kids develop (or DON’T develop) empathy at the hands of adults. I’m willing to bet that everything hasn’t been so perfect for this girl. And that’s unfortunate, because there are probably some adults who should have been standing there with her wearing a sign. I sympathize with the mother who MAY or MAY NOT have known what to do, but I’m not going to say I think this was the right response.</p>
<p>The truth is, the girl is not the only one who dropped the ball. If she is seriously bullying constantly and does not seem to have developed an adequate sense of empathy, then she needs counseling, because it will only get worse. Wearing a sign is not the necessary help IMO as it will just make her more resentful and feel more like she has to fight the world in order to maintain control. In fact I really can’t think of a lot of ways IMO that would be poorer ways to help a serious bully. If she is just a kid who messed up, then she still doesn’t deserve this. All kids mess up once in awhile. They hurt and get hurt. But that doesn’t mean that public humiliation is the lesson anyone needs to take away from it. </p>
<p>If you have to resort to these tactics of punishment in middle school, I think you’re on a bad path. If it’s that serious she needs HELP from a mental health professional. She will not develop a sense of empathy by standing on a street corner with a sign. I’m sorry. If it truly isn’t there right now, something is wrong and that is a woefully inadequate response to it IMO. What’s going to happen when she just gets smarter and more manipulative? Sure, it was the “right punishment” this time - next time, she’ll just make sure she doesn’t get caught. Next time, she’ll just turn to destroying herself from the inside, to gain control when no one is a kid anymore, drugs, alcohol, running to the wrong people for love. I believe that such punitive efforts are counter-productive, as they simply encourage the kid to engage a game with authority and get smarter about it, without addressing the real source of the behavior which is often much deeper; this is not simply a “bad kid.” This is a troubled kid. And without the necessary intervention, the troubles might change but they aren’t going to go away.</p>
<p>CGM, if the whole group was dealt with, wouldn’t it become clear who the instigator was, and thus that could be dealt with also? </p>
<p>Anyway, I agree that I don’t think the sign for the one girl is going to solve the problem. </p>
<p>Also, the bullying apparently stemmed from some “insults” – was that ever looked into, dealt with?</p>
<p>I don’t think this is as clear cut as it seems to some . . . there seems to be something missing in this whole scenario, and that would be kids learning how to RESPECT and VALUE each other.</p>
<p>I don’t think the sign is going to get her to stop either. I think it is deeper. Perhaps social and group therapy of how to deal with issues and the underlying reasons for the bullying and better ways to socially interact is needed. The sign is just a consequence on the surface. Punitive humiliation. Something makes this kid do this and so social group therapy might be one way to resolve the issues and teach better ways to interact with peers.</p>
<p>sorry I dont remember how to do the quote thing…</p>
<p>“What’s going to happen when she just gets smarter and more manipulative? Sure, it was the “right punishment” this time - next time, she’ll just make sure she doesn’t get caught. Next time, she’ll just turn to destroying herself from the inside, to gain control when no one is a kid anymore, drugs, alcohol, running to the wrong people for love. I believe that such punitive efforts are counter-productive, as they simply encourage the kid to engage a game with authority and get smarter about it, without addressing the real source of the behavior which is often much deeper; this is not simply a “bad kid.” This is a troubled kid. And without the necessary intervention, the troubles might change but they aren’t going to go away.”</p>
<p>Princedog: Not sure where you got your info about the girl involved in this story. It certainly wasn’t described in the LA Times articles. She was a rather typical middle schooler, who was involved in some ugly (and if I recall) racial name calling and bullying. For you to leap to your conclusions, is way over the top</p>
<p>I don’t really know, isn’t it leaping to conclusions either way? She could just as easily end up worse because deeper issues weren’t addressed, as standing on a street corner with a sign could magically fix “ugly racial name calling and bullying”. I do not think that repeated racial comments with harmful attempt is “rather typical” in middle school - I am not sure what kind of middle schools you have gone too recently. In fact this would be rather atypical behavior among the middle schoolers I know. That is lashing out with something you have to KNOW is going to be controversial - it’s a bid for attention, something you know will get you in trouble - and that’s indicative of a move towards self destructive behaviors. </p>
<p>And if she’s really a “rather typical middle schooler” then I believe I addressed this in my last post:</p>
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<p>However, you can’t have it all these different ways. If everyone thinks she was such a problem this was justified because all the adults in her life were desperate that earlier consequences didn’t work, then I’m not sure why people think holding a sign WILL work. If the problem is so ongoing, then whether it’s popular or not to say so, I will go on record as saying I feel most kids labeled “bullies” consistently, who exhibit behavior that demonstrates little empathy, are emotionally disturbed and have likely picked up this behavior and other destructive behavior at the hands of someone else.</p>
<p>It’s good to see a mom taking responsibility for a kid’s misbehaviour though. I’ve seen time and time again parents always taking their kid’s side even when they’re in the wrong (and, if I’m honest, my mum who complains about it has gone that way a couple of times herself)</p>
<p>I still don’t give a rat’s hind quarters about the bullies of the world. This doesn’t work. That doesn’t work. Maybe they just need more hugs…riiiight.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, who’s protecting the victims? What’s being done for the VICTIMS?</p>