Purdue vs. Stony Brook

College Search & Lists
1

I’ve been accepted to Stony Brook and Purdue for Astronomy.
Stony Brook is much better with academics and it has a better faculty.
Purdue is better in pretty much everything else. It is also ranked higher and has a better reputation.

For an international student, the costs are actually not all that different. In Stony Brook, cost of attendance per year is 40,650 per year and at Purdue it is 40,835. This only includes tuition, fees, room and board. So, cost is not a factor in my decision. Plus, I hear that Stony brook university is overpriced in terms of dorms and food and that Purdue has a better standard of living.

So, please! HELP!
If you can, please compare the astronomy programs in both universities.

2

I can’t really comment on astronomy specifically at either of these institutions, unfortunately. Neither are known as a top destination for astronomy, but that doesn’t mean you can’t receive a solid astronomy education, with appropriate facilities. Maybe contact both of those departments directly.

I can speak positively on the natural sciences at Stony Brook (chemistry in particular) – some very good faculty, also good facilities and placement. As your sub-field of astronomy may be related to physics / astrophysics, it may be useful to consider the physics departments at each.

You should note that Stony Brook is an easy ride by public transit into New York City. Purdue is in the middle of Indiana. That may be a crucial distinction for you to consider. Purdue is known for excellent engineering, some solid STEM fields, but otherwise, it wouldn’t be on my shortlist for stimulating college towns.

Are you awaiting other astronomy acceptances? Where are you coming from?

3

Out of curiosity, I had a look at physics rankings. Stony Brook is indeed ranked quite a bit higher for graduate physics overall. If you are truly interested in astronomy / astrophysics, you should be concerned with the strength of your disciplinary program. The overall reputation of a university is not as important; both institutions are recognized for their research, but it will come down to your individual performance, as well as the support and tutelage you receive from faculty, to achieve career success in the sciences. If the better faculty are indeed at Stony Brook (not sure how you quantify this, but my experience indicates SB is strong), then go to Stony Brook.

4

Thanks you. I was leaning towards SBU anyway. I’ve talked to quite a few astronomy students there and they love it. I think i will choose stony brook.

By the way, can you tell me if the honours college at umass is a better opportunity than stony brook? I got accepted into the honours college of umass amherst and i didn’t even apply - it was an invitation. I hear umass amherst is a pretty average school and it’s rather easy to get into. can you tell which would be a better opportunity?

I am from india (i live in dubai) and i’m waiting to hear from university of washington.

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What are your goals?

6

I feel all three choices – Stony Brook, Purdue, and Washington-Seattle – are a notch above UMass for the natural sciences. And each of those institutions I believe has their own honors-type programs, so I don’t think that helps UMass much. The only reason I’d consider UMass for you, is if there is a specific astronomy program that is well-regarded. I haven’t heard of such, but I don’t know everything.

7

My goal: Astronomer. I won’t stop with a bachelor’s. I’ll definitely go onto graduate school.

I guess, in that case Stony Brook is the best option. Purdue only has applied physics with concentration in astrophysics, UMass does have BS Astronomy. If I go to Stony Brook, I’m thinking of taking a double major in astronomy and physics, which I hear is quite popular because of the overlapping course requirements.

Also, Stony Brook is cheaper that UWash. SBU costs around 40k+ for international. UWash costs 60k+. I didn’t apply for financial aid.

8

Did you get into the honors college anywhere else?
If you didn’t, I’d pick UMass for Commonwealth Honors. The opportunities you’ll get and the quality of experience will be better - smaller classes where you get to know your professor, priority registration (this alone is worth its weigh in gold), excellent dorms, the “commonwealth campus”… in addition, with the 5 college system, you can take classes at elite colleges like Amherst, Smith, and Mount Holyoke.
Stony Brook is indeed strong in the sciences, but for an international student it can be very lonely because it’s a commuter campus, with many students leaving at night and most of them leaving over the weekend, hence reducing the opportunities to socialize and network, and reducing the need for the university to provide entertainment, means international students are on their own instead of having free activities provided on campus. I think Stony Brook would be a good choice for a grad student who’s already settled in the country, but not for a freshman.
UWashington is better than either one but it’s indeed too expensive to be worth the cost differential.
If you got into Honors College at Stony Brook, ask whether there’s an Honors Dorm and how many kids live there over the weekend.

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@livinghigh00 - I would certainly say UMass Honors unless you want to go to UWashington, which is very well regarded. Not only is it higher ranked than Stony Brook but the new Honors dorms are great. (http://■■■■■■■.com/82cl5x2 UMass Amherst #76) (http://■■■■■■■.com/le2l2j7 Stony Brook #88) Additionally, UMass may have a higher acceptance rate, but their students slightly outperform Stony Brook’s. Lastly, I would take a good look at both schools as rankings are only one part of picking a college. But, this being said, the fact that you got into the honors program at higher ranked University would certainly pique my interest! Best wishes :slight_smile:

10

Well, I’ve always liked the fact that UMass has the five college system. However, in the case of astronomy, those other, excellent colleges in the five college system, such as Amherst College, do not likely have any facilities or resources in astronomy that significantly enhance the astronomy offerings at UMass. Other things and experiences, yes.

I stand by my assessment that the OP should choose his school, if he plans to do advanced study in astronomy-related fields, with the strongest departments and faculty he can receive in the natural sciences. Thus far, unless he is accepted into Washington, I’d still recommend Stony Brook. I’ve had the opportunity to do some research in the natural sciences at S. B. (not astronomy), and the facilities, research and the faculty I knew personally were quite serious and talented.

I also graduated from an honors program at another flagship university with some outstanding natural science departments. My experience is that an honors program will not necessarily make up for lackluster departments if you plan research or graduate work, but: if you participate in honors and your departments / majors are already strong, honors can enhance your program, and give you more individualized attention, more focused peers, etc. etc. This is not to imply that UMass is necessarily lackluster, but its overall US News ranking has little to do with its astronomy and physics programs, which probably are not as strong.

Finally, with an international poster, I’d be extra careful steering him, as he has not been to this country and may not understand everything we do here. I’ve also lived abroad, so I can sympathize with the situation.

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The consortium probably benefits the students at the other colleges more, in that UMass’ larger course catalog fills in the gaps that the small colleges have in their offerings.

12

^Actually, for an international student, having 4 campuses which are extremely residential and wealthy (hence providing hosts of free entertainment) would be extremely important.
In addition remember that undergraduates will only take 1/3 of their classes in their major - OP is unlikely to exhaust the academic offerings at ANY of the universities, but the ability to take seminar-style classes with the nation’s best students would be a great bonus to the motivated UMass student.
It’d be important to know whether OP got into SB’s Honors College as this would mitigate some downsides (in particular, for someone who wants to get into research, being in the honors college at a research university makes it much easier to join research project that they’re competing for with graduate students, vs . “regular” undergraduates). Ultimately, my evaluation of Stony Brook isn’t strictly for its science offerings - I think everyone will agree they’re superb- but rather the fact it’s very lonely for international students because it’s a heavily commuter/suitcase campus that isn’t geared toward building a new community for those who come from too far away to have any ties to the area.

13

If this student is serious about postgraduate study, which he seems to be, it behooves him to accept the program with the best graduate placement in his proposed field. It also seems that he pretty much understands this.

I’m not knocking the honors program at UMass. But from my experience, I don’t see how this would propel him forward as much in his proposed career, as will succeeding in the strongest astronomy (and possibly physics) programs he has on offer. I think it is a bit of a disservice to make the consortium sound like these other beautiful colleges – Amherst, Hampshire, etc. – will be his homes away from home. As ucbalumnus pointed out, it’s more of an advantage for the colleges to fill academic gaps at big UMass, plus maybe an occasional social function or friendship between campuses. I had close friends attend Amherst College, Mt. Holyoke, Hampshire, etc., and I never had the impression that UMass students were there much at all. I had more of an impression that these individual colleges have a fairly exclusive campus feel, but YMMV.

Yes, Stony Brook has some commuters. Part of the reason it does is due to cost savings – it’s a pretty dense area, and not far from NYC. But there are plenty of residential dorms, activities and the like. Last I visited, there also seemed to be a fairly diverse student population, with many nationalities. I took this as a positive, and possibly the NY metro area also contributed. UMass and the colleges are situated in a more rural area, and are thus primarily residential.

If there was an even better option than Stony Brook for him, I’d recommend that (and it’s not clear UW-Seattle necessarily is, as Stony Brook’s smaller size may give him better access to faculty and facilities, and UW is more expensive). I don’t mean any disrespect, MYOS; I just don’t see the honors enticement for UMass as tipping the scales for a future astronomer.

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@anhydrite - Well I highly doubt he would “need” to use the other campuses, UMass Amherst is a City unto itself… Also, I can’t talk about astronomy as at UMass it is probably a less common area in science, but I can say that UMass is quite strong in the sciences. Considering he maybe interested in Physics/Astrophysics; the program at UMass Amherst has one of the highest ROIs, return on investment, of any college. The average student makes an additional 701K $ over 30 years. (http://■■■■■■■.com/m6xf59t) Additionally, for fun, I looked up what types of telescopes that both schools use. I know size isn’t everything but SBU’s largest telescope is in South America and is 6m (a little less than 20’), whereas UMass Amherst’s new telescope is in Mexico and is THE LARGEST SINGLE TELESCOPE IN THE WORLD (At 50m across! that ~170’) Additionally it took 130 million dollars to build, and was split between Mexico and UMass.
(http://news.sciencemag.org/2013/05/mexicos-large-millimeter-telescope-opens-business)
UMass (http://www.astro.umass.edu/facilities/active-facilities/)
SBU (http://www.astro.sunysb.edu/astro/observatories.html)

PS- As a Massachusetts resident I may be a little bias, but I think our state has the best schools in the country. Heck even UMass, which has been jumping up lately.

15

Halcyon, posts like yours above could be more helpful if they were a little less biased, and paid a little more attention to all of the info. already discussed here.

I too have lived in Massachusetts. I certainly don’t have anything against the state, nor its institutions. If you would read upthread, you would realize I was reponding to other posts about the college consortium, its structure and experience for those who participate.

The OP, as I will state for the fourth time in this thread now, would like to attend graduate school in astronomy and / or astrophysics. That is not an easy path, and as I have some experience with departments in the natural sciences, I felt it useful for him to attend the program with the greatest strength in graduate placement. I do believe (given current choices) I am correct in stating that is Stony Brook for these fields.

If somebody proves otherwise, then I am happy to desist. You should also have read upthread that your ROI article lists another of the OP’s potential schools, UW-Seattle, as a greater ROI on what I presume to be an undergraduate physics degree (and how they would calculate and scale this metric, I have no idea). I can say this metric may not apply very well to the OP, as he intends on going to graduate school.

It is a nice telescope that UMass has built with the Mexican insitute as partner. It is this, precisely, and not one of many, many other types of scopes and observatories in current use:

“If we talk only of single dish, steerable, millimeter-wavelength telescopes, then the LMT is the world’s largest.”

It is not THE LARGEST SINGLE TELESCOPE IN THE WORLD by any means other than stated above. If, perchance, the UMass facilities end up giving the OP a greater chance of achieveing his goals than the other considerations discussed, then I will happily recommend UMass to him.

Until we hear again from the OP, I think I’ve said my piece here.

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To clarify: it’s not so much that students from UMass would hang out on the other campuses all the time, but 1° they’d get an opportunity, by combining the consortium and the Honors College, to bypass large lectures, and 2° for international students, it means a wealth of free entertainment opportunities.
Commuter schools such as SB rely on what the city offers - unless OP is wealthy, many options in the city will be too costly. And it’s just not the same to “go into the city”. For example, for parties, you need to know someone in the city that’ll invite you. On the other hand, NYC is exciting and a great place to be young (especially if you’ve got money).
100% freshmen at UMass, 84% freshmen at SB live in campus housing… but most of these 84% return home on weekends when only a minority do at UMass. Therefore, local entertainment and community can be found over the weekend in Amherst and on surrounding campuses in a way that isn’t true at Stony Brook. For a “local” student, this isn’t very important, but for an international student who’ll be living 4 years there, it does matter. If OP has friends in the NYC area or already at SB, and if OP has wealthy parents who can fund weekend trips into the city, the situation would be different.
I’m also quite sure a regular undergraduate would not run out of classes at any public flagship and Commonwealth college really does make a difference to the experience, peer quality, class environment, and learning experience. If OP got into SB Honors that’s yet another matter to take into consideration though.

Note that I’m not a UMass booster actually, I’m just used to international students. If the choice were between SB and UMass without the Honors College, the choice would be harder but I just wouldn’t recommend a commuter campus to an international student. OP may well have other choices which would result in his/her choosing neither UMass Honors nor Stony Brook! :smiley:

We don’t know whether SB, UMass Honors, UWash, have better graduate placement in astronomy. Most graduate programs would require excellent classes in physics and math. A typical undergrad will take 12 classes in his/her major. OP can look at 1° what classes his/her current preparation would allow him/her to bypass at both SB and UMass, so that s/he can devote more time in more advanced classes; 2° whether there’s a built-in process to take graduate classes if one is advanced enough 3° class size for the required introductory classes that OP can’t bypass and to help develop a relationship with professors 4° research opportunities (ie., not just if they exist, but how easy they are to get, if there’s a guarantee of sorts, what year, etc) and support for undergraduate research (funds for presenting at undergraduate conferences, on-campus conferences) 5° support for REU and fellowship applications (ideally there’d be an office dedicated to that).

Op: it’s really a matter of opinion. Subjective. There’s no “perfect” university. You have to decide what matters to you, taking into account all factors. There are reasons to choose Stony Brook and reasons to choose UMass.
Both choices, and their reason, are absolutely valid.

Based on this
http://www.thecollegesolution.com/the-colleges-where-phds-get-their-start/
Caltech, HarveyMudd, MIT, Reed, UChicago, Carleton, Princeton, Grinnell, Wabash, Lawrence, are tops for PHDs in physics or physical sciences (in terms of ratio undergrad major: PHD). OP, did you apply to any of these?

17

@anhydrite - Yes, I agree, I was typing with a bias and this should be completely obvious. (that’s part of the reason why I was ‘ok’ with typing it) This being said, I usually try to provide a constructive and fact based posts but I guess I was letting state pride get to me a bit this time. I am certainly a supporter of UMass and I think there is a lot to offer there. I was however a bit off-put by OP’s seeming disregard of UMass when, as Greenman57 said, UMass is ranked higher than SBU as a University. (Especially since he was accepted to the honors program you would at least think he would consider it…) All things considered, it matters little that SBS is a lower ranked school as I’m sure it still has some smart students in it. Also, I would like to correct my past statement about the telescope as it was misleading. As anhydrite said, it is the largest of a specific type of telescope, there are much larger arrays and other types of telescopes. (You still have to admit 50m across is quite large) lol

Again sorry for the lopsided post! :wink:

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@livinghigh00 - Just to clarify, as a new applicant you can’t apply to the honors college at UMass, they pick you. Congrats by the way, you must have had a 2100+ SAT and strong GPA. Also, I’m surprised you applied to mostly public colleges as they tend to give little aid to international students. (It’s tough I wish they gave more)

19

I am so sorry. I’ve been very busy the past couple of days.
The funny part is, my GPA is actually not all that good. My high school grades were a roller coaster ride of above average and below average. But my SAT score was 2110 and my subject was 1590/1600. I was really unsure whether or not I’d get in because of this.

Just so you know, I’m a girl.

Don’t take the entertainment part into consideration. I’ve actually been talking to a lot of people who will be attending Stony Brook this fall and I am yet to find someone who will be commuting during the weekends. Besides, I’m very proactive. I don’t think entertainment will be the problem. In fact, I’m just hoping to god I don’t slack off and focus on having fun all the time.

I realize UMass is ranked higher than Stony Brook is. But I am more interested in what these rankings are based on. For example, yes, a beautiful campus is definitely a pro but I’m not going to base my selection on the view from my dorm window.

As far as astronomy goes, I like what I hear about Stony Brook. I’ve personally spoken to quite a few astronomy majors and they all have good reviews about their experience.

Yes, a 50 ft wide telescope is amazing. But that’s not going to help me a lot for undergrad.

So, my only consideration right now is the quality of education. The professors, the students, the opportunities.

Stony Brook (double major in physics and astronomy) vs. UMass Honors college (BS Astronomy).

20

Did you apply and/or get into SB University Scholars? Did you apply to Honors College (which selects the 60 best students in the freshman class for a top-notch experience)?

The honors college DOES make a big difference to the quality of education (especially wrt research opportunities, relationship with professors/mentors, REU advising then fellowship advising, funds to present your research at conferences…)
Based on what you said, I’d imagine SB Honors would be a great solution for you.
http://www.stonybrook.edu/ugadmissions/newhonors/
https://uaa.stonybrook.edu/honors-college
If you don’t make it into University Scholars or Honors College, there’s WISE - always a great resource if you plan to go on to grad school.
http://www.stonybrook.edu/ugadmissions/newhonors/wise.shtml

Also, if you went to UMass, would you not be able to double major in physics and astronomy?