<p>Sybbie, since he was waitlisted, the University of Chicago still has his application? Is that what you’re saying? </p>
<p>On the essays comments, a lot of you will probably cringe at this, but he had no advice on the essays. His high school offered a college level writing class and in the fall semester that teacher focused on college essays and helped students with rewrites. Unfortunately the schedulers put our son in the spring class and by then all the essays had been written. We didn’t know about the fall semester help until too late. I proofed his essays and eliminated one rant he had about his Dad, but that was the extent of his essay help. I still have his essays. Should I post somewhere to see if that was a problem? </p>
<p>Oh, he did not take any test preparation classes of any kind. First time around, his poorest performance was on the Verbal, so I bought him an SAT vocab book for about $5 and he got a perfect 800 on the next test after looking at that book the night before. He really is a great test taker and obviously smart.</p>
<p>Please stop trying to second guess why he didn’t get into any of the reach schools he applied to. His mistake was having no match schools and not liking his safety.</p>
<p>It is not your fault that he didn’t get into his reach schools. His not getting in may have been due to nothing that he could change. The overwhelming majority of students who apply to those school qualify. What gets students in is having what the colleges need to create well rounded classes, and that changes each year.</p>
<p>You’ll make better use of your time by emotionally supporting your son as he goes to U Minn. If he doesn’t like it, he can transfer, and if he does, he should apply more wisely than he did last time. It is even harder to get into Ivies by transfering, so he should cast a much wider net if he decides to transfer.</p>
<p>Yes, we probably should have encouraged him to do more in preparation for the SAT II or better yet, his guidance couselor should have told him this was more important. I did mention the preparation books to him as an option, but what “smart” kid listens to their parent? Maybe a few do, but not ours.</p>
<p>I am sorry that your son is disappointed at his college option. However, it is simply wrong to think that a major flagship state university would not offer opportunities to a bright student that rival any Ivies. The Theoretical Physics Institute at UM is well regarded. </p>
<p>My daughter, who may major in Physics, had the option of going to U of Chicago but decided to attend a liberal arts college instead. As a professor at a major research university, I fully supported her decision. While the University of Chicago certainly holds a distinguished history in Physics, it provides to good undergraduates no special advantages over any other major university institutions such as U of M. A sound college education, whether at an Ivies or at a state university, will prepare your son well to gain entrance to graduate programs. Statistically, honor colleges and liberal arts institutions provide more PhD/student than the Ivies.</p>
<p>Thank you again, Northstar Mom. I agree it’s best to focus on how to make the best of his future options, rather than dwell on why he didn’t get in. </p>
<p>Still it is very curious and may help me with our younger child, or help others who are currently applying. Since you have mentioned it a few times, how does one develop a list of “match” schools. Our counselors never mentioned this. During the app process, I did try to get more involvement from our school guidance counselor, because I was very concerned that our son would not get into those top schools. My husband and I get the Wall Street Journal and have read for years about the high quality kids who don’t get in, so we were prepared. I repeatedly asked for help identifying some schools that would fall in between the MITs of the world and the U of M and they never had a suggestion. </p>
<p>How do you go about developing a list like that? Also when your child is inclined towards a certain major, how do you determine the schools to look at for that area. I’ve read about “reach, match, safe.” Is there a tool for finding schools in each of those categories by major? I’m thinking ahead to our daughter here. If anyone had any help in this area I’d appreciate it. Also would appreciate some referral to any source that does a good job rating the Physics departments in case our son doesn’t “fit” at the U of M.</p>
<p>to the OP … I hope this all works out OK for your son … so far he has not a had great payback for all his hard work. I might have slightly different advice for your son but I have to ask a question first. What are all the schools to which your son applied … we know UM, Chicago, and Northwestern … your original post mentions the Ivies; did he apply to any? </p>
<p>It sounds like your son aimed very high and UM and it did not work out (from his viewpoint). My kids would react very differently to going to UofAnything … my oldedst would do great ay any school as she is very focused and self-motivated … my second, tends to gravitate toward the cultural norm; for him I hope he picks the toughest school he gets into so he will be hanging with kids who overwhelmingly are pretty focused academically. If my second child ends up in the situation your son is I would have him consider a gap year and then reapply the following year to a broader spectrum of schools (that’s why I asked about the schools earlier) … if he goes to StateU for a year he probably won’t get the grades to transfer in a top tier school; he’s more likely to get good grades at a tough school. </p>
<p>The final thought from limited info … it sounds like your sons ECs are basically academically orientated also; he sounds like a very bright; very motivated kid but I’m not sure his application brought out what he would bring to the school beyond academics … the gap year gives him a chance to do something that will standout; don’t worry about his makeing bucks but doing something that he enjoys and is impactful in some way. I know I’m in a small minority on CC but I think a gap year to take another stab a top schools is not always a bad strategy. Good luck and I hope your son finds a path that challenges and excites him.</p>
<p>How about starting with basic college guidebooks to develop a list of matches (or reaches or safeties)? Things like Princeton review Guide to the best 351 colleges, Insiders guide to colleges, etc. When your son took SAT or ACT did he sign up for the service that lets colleges send him mail? My son is just a junior, but already getting mail from colleges and has been since sophomore year. I encourage him to read about the college in one of the guidebooks if it’s someplace he hasn’t heard of or isn’t familiar with.</p>
<p>*How could the smaller liberal arts schools have anything better to offer in science than the U? *
Well I can think of one LAC where the nuclear reactor is staffed by virtually all undergrad students ;)</p>
<p>But boosterism aside
Many cite opportunities to take upper division classes at a university as an undergrad, as a reason to look toward a larger school.
Additonally, if he does decide to stay for undergrad at UMinn, his low debt, will be an enormous positive when he looks toward grad school and employment opportunities</p>
<p>how to find matches? you generally want to start by getting info on average gpa’s, and sat ranges – many guidebooks have it as well as online sources (collegboard, princetonreview).<br>
the fullest readily available profile of a college’s admission decisions may be the common data set – it is a standard format for the info. here is a thread with links to many college’s common data sets. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=76444[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=76444</a>
not all colleges make their common data set readily available at their website. some have other statistical info on their own web sites – look for pages referring to class profiles that have admission stats.</p>
<p>but realize that even once you find this statistical info for the schools you are considering, its not perfect. it gives you an idea of how many apply and how many are accepted and score ranges of those accepted. as someone already said, in general, if your stats are at or above the 75 percentile for a school, you can feel pretty good.</p>
<p>BUT - a major caution when it comes to selective schools. The 75 percentile only tells you that 75 percentile of the entering freshmen scored below that. IT DOES NOT TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT THE STATS OF THOSE REJECTED!!. At highly selective schools, more than half of applicants with scores at the 75 perentile may still be rejected!! So if you look at the stats for such a selective school you might think it is a match, if you only look at the 75 percentile and not at the rejection rates. Unfortuantely, not all schools provide stats about those rejected. But here are a couple of examples: at brown, 75% of those with verbal sat’s over 750 were rejected. <a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University;
at lehigh - a good school, but not ivy level, the 75 percentile for verbal was 690, for math was 740 – but approx one-third of those with combined sats of 1500-1600 were rejected! <a href=“http://www3.lehigh.edu/sharedmedia/PDF_Files/LUadmissions_class_summary.pdf[/url]”>http://www3.lehigh.edu/sharedmedia/PDF_Files/LUadmissions_class_summary.pdf</a></p>
<p>padad, appreciate the input from someone in the academic community. Your comments are reassuring and confirm some of my thoughts that the U of M would indeed be excellent for undergrad. </p>
<p>I have been trying to communicate to our son that it is more important for him to find an area of inquiry and bring his talents and abilities to that and not to focus on where he pursues that inquiry–after all Einstein was just a postal worker, not an MIT undergrad. At this level, it’s more about the passion and devotion one has for the subject, don’t you agree.</p>
<p>In that case, I particularly invite you to the local meeting about high school and college options in Minnesota on Thursday 5 October 2006 in Minneapolis. The local public high schools in Minnesota, alas, and even the local independent “prep” schools don’t have an especially informed perspective on how to prepare young people for the most selective colleges. It’s helpful for parents to build their own information networks to gain a broader, more accurate perspective.</p>
<p>Thanks tokenadult. Yes, I think we are reticent in Minnesota to give our children all the latest advantages in terms of counseling and preparation that are very common on the coasts and Chicago. I still have some personal reservations about that being the way to behave.</p>
<p>Emeraldkity, what LAC are you referring to? I know it’s not any in Minnesota.</p>
<p>Oh sorry peege- I forget not everyone has been on CC for the last 5 years- and please call me EK ( the name comes from my hometown of Seattle- where local boosters have termed it the Emerald City ) </p>
<p>my D is getting ready to apply… we have looked at some schools</p>
<p>what she has done is asked herself some questions, so that her safeties, match and reach schools are ALL places she can see herself at: (not in any particular order)</p>
<p>city, rural, suburban school- city
big, medium, small- can be medium or small if in a big city
greek or not greek- not a big greek social scene
big sports school or not- doesn’t want a big sports school</p>
<p>do stats match up generally- she looks at hers and see where they fall in the range</p>
<p>academics- looking at particular programs- and while that is shifting somewhat, she doesn’t want a school with “set” classes, she is going for a more ecletic mix of courses and her degree
grad school- do its kids get into good grad schools, she for sure wants to go on (lucky us)
student body- can she see herself in that group</p>
<p>weather- hates the heat, doesn’t mind bad winters</p>
<p>dorms and food- not as important if in a good urban school</p>
<p>these are some of the questions an applicant needs to ask so that if they don’t get in the # 1 choice, that any of the choices they could thrive at…as someone said why apply to a school you don’t like</p>
<p>the best students get rejected all the tme, but the SMART ones, well, they make the most of what choices they do have</p>