So a couple of weeks ago I was excepted to St Andrews in Scotland and now I am deciding which schools I will apply regular decision to based on this acceptance. I only want to apply to schools that will offer me the same or better education as St Andrews. Unfortunately, I do not know much about it and I was wondering if anyone could make a comparison between the level of academic rigor at St Andrews and a US school. Thanks!
accepted**** oh my
St Andrews asks for a 28+ on the ACT . . .
https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/study/entrance-requirements/usa/
. . . which would correspond to the 25th percentile at Bates . . .
http://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/college-profiles-new-sat/
. . . Bates in turn can be compared statistically to other U.S. schools here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-610-smartest-colleges-in-america-2015-9
This would leave you with 59 U.S. colleges that would be (approximately) at least equivalent to St. Andrews in terms of the academic expectations for their incoming students.
my daughter attends StA. She thinks the quality of the education is outstanding, but then again she does not have anything to compare it to other than high school - which she says StA is much more difficult than her private high school. I’ve heard from other kids that went to her high school that college is a breeze compared to high school - but this is a small sample size. I think its pretty easy to argue that StA is one of the top 100 university in the World. Where it fits in the rankings is highly subjective.
More conservatively, U.S. schools within the top ~40 might most match your indicated academic criteria (based on statistical considerations):
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-50-smartest-colleges-in-america-2016-10
If you are curious, @maddie995n, the first analysis (post 2) used ACT scores for comparison, the second (#4) SAT.
@maddie995n In terms of the education the best guide to the rigour of the school is the quality applicants who are admitted. St A’s is consistently in the top 5/6 along with Oxbridge, Imperial Durham LSE . The thing you have to realise 28 ACT is the minimum to be considered so you can bet the average is >30. The fee structure in Scotland means Scottish students and EU students enjoy almost free tuition, as such, they get the absolute cream of Scottish and European applicants, Unlike the US system you are expected to read for a degree… Lectures and tutorials provide the skeleton your supplementary reading fleshes out the complete product. You can work has hard as you wish or not at all, that will be reflected in your final grade of degree. The US does not have a monopoly on smarts, believe me you will get as much rigour as you are prepared to work for.
St Andrews is rated quite highly by most rankings, but traditionally it is seen as quite an isolated university, with most people attending being fairly local and Scottish, with some from English independent schools. Recently, it has been recruiting quite a lot in the US, and US students apparently are quite frequent. In short, the reputation is pretty good, but for most people in the UK, it wouldn’t really be up there with Imperial or UCL, let along Oxford or Cambridge. Although I probably should add, to be honest, that I didn’t go to St Andrews, and only know it by reputation.
Sorry, ‘let alone’. St Andrews is part of the Scottish system though, which means usually four year degrees rather than three, and in some cases, the opportunity to change the main subject you were originally admitted for ( actually, Cambridge also has a version of this, but only by changing Tripos after your first year exams, so not quite the same). Scottish four year degrees are still more specialized than American liberal arts, but I can see how the four year structure may appeal more than the typical UK three year ( there are some exceptions; for example if you spend a year abroad your total degree would usually be four years) to students coming from the US.
Your information is quite out of date. 40 percent of the students are from outside the UK, so to say the student population is quite local and Scottish is not correct. In addition, depending on the field it is consistently ranked quite high in the tables. Yea it is a small town, but it is pretty easy to travel on breaks and I think moat students find, at any university, their social life revolves around their fellow students.
I said ‘traditionally’. 40 per cent may now be be from outside of the UK, but this is definitely fairly recent. It depends on how you look at it, I suppose, but having a lot of international students wouldn’t necessarily put the reputation of. St Andrews up with universities that have a longer established international reputation.
@lizzzar St Andrews began active recruitment of NA students in 1984, not a recent phenomenon, and the student breakdown is 27% Scots, 26% rUK, 14% EU and 33% non-EU. http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/uploads/docs/report/2016/nr_160707_higher_education.pdf
Times World University rankings: Oxford 1st, Cambridge 4th, Imperial 8th, UCL 15th, St. Andrews 110th.
@lizzzar St Andrews is the third oldest English speaking university in the world, est in 1413 I think it is pretty comfortable in its skin as far as reputation is concerned. In the UK the course is just as important as the institution. If you wish to read astronomy, astrophysics or straight physics St A’ is one of the best in the UK and their cohort would be match for any other institution home or abroad. If Oriental or African languages is your discipline then you probably find no better than SOAS. For overall reputation look at the entry tariff (difficulty of admission) St A’s is usually in the top 10 if not top 5 of UK schools.
World university rankings are not the best indicator of the quality of undergraduate education. In the US or UK. Too heavily weighted towards publication and graduate programs.
My daughter applied to 5 chemistry programs in the top ten in the various rankings for the UK. After Cambridge and Oxford, Durham, York and St. Andrews rounded out the top 5 pretty consistently. I feel confident she would have received a quality undergraduate chemistry degree at any of them. (Frankly, p chem is p chem and o chem is o chem and if they are accredited by the RSC there are standards they have to meet)
Actually, I went to Oxford University, and age of university by itself doesn’t matter such. Some people might say Stanford is better than Harvard, although I’d say it doesn’t matter much, and depends what you what. Some people might also that both Harvard and Stanford are better than Oxford, and it is certainly debatable. It is possible to get less than ideal tuition at Oxford, and you can be taught be graduate students, but I understand this can happen at other universities too. But essentially, most people with the grades to do somewhere ranked higher than St Andrews will do so, regardless of highly debatable rankings of individual subjects.
For an undergraduate science education I would rank Harvey Mudd or Cal Tech higher than Harvard, Stanford, Oxford or Cambridge.
St Andrew’s endowment is also drastically lower than Oxford and Cambridge (who, admittedly, are below most of the Ivy League and Stanford) and I wonder if this is behind some of the strong recruitment from abroad, particularly the US. International students pay higher fees, and St Andrew’s does not have much money ( apart from income from fees).
Most UK universities do not have the endowment systems of US counterparts. Strong alumni giving is not part of the tradition. There is no doubt that they are hoping US alumni will change that.
@lizzzar If you are British you will know there are many reasons why qualified applicants don’t choose Oxbridge. If you are a Scottish kid with AAA* are you going to pay 30k+ to go to Oxbridge or are you going to go to Edinburgh/St Andrews/Glasgow for free, for sure it wont be 100% Oxbridge. If an applicant wishes to study Japanese and Economics, you are unlikely to want to study at Oxbridge since that combination is likely unavailable. If your are a product of the state schooling system and suitably qualified, Oxbridge might not be for you given their reputation. There are many reasons bright kids choose not to go to Oxbridge, just as many bright students choose not to study in Londion (I cannot think of anything worse unless money is no object). I do however agree with you that applicants self select, most of the time they will choose those institutions which their academic qualifications are a best fit, and if admission tariffs are that metric then it seems St A’s ranks 1 in Scotland and 5 in the UK.