<p>Are there any kids who scored below 1200 (M+V+W) on the SAT Duke TIP or CTY in 7th grade and managed to be successful at MIT? </p>
<p>I had a serious discussion with son today about whether he should apply to MIT or not. Our fear is that MIT could be too hard for him. Even though his SAT / PSAT, SAT Subject Tests and AP scores are fairly strong now, how much impact does weak elementary and middle school education play in success at top schools? thanks</p>
<p>MIT doesn’t consider scores from that far back in a student’s career. What matters is the student’s progress during the years in high school.</p>
<p>I doubt if there exists enough data to answer your question, simply because colleges and universities don’t bother to keep track of irrelevant SAT scores.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, my daughter was not a particularly successful student in elementary school, but she did very well at MIT and is now a grad student in physics at Harvard. We also know a child prodigy who went to college at age 14, burned out, and is now working at a low-level job, unsure of what to do next. These experiences lead me to believe that one’s elementary or middle-school experience might not be the best predictor of future success. </p>
<p>If your son’s grades and scores are within range of MIT and he really sees himself there, then he should apply.</p>
<p>Just my 2 cents.</p>
<p>It’s pointless to worry about this until he actually gets into MIT.</p>
<p>Regardless, I don’t think my assessment of a candidate’s readiness would be affected by their 7th grade SAT’s.</p>
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<p>Actually, don’t you think it will be pointless to worry about it after he gets there? </p>
<p>I am assuming you meant it is pointless to worry about this until he gets accepted.:)</p>
<p>Thanks for the help. So, you do not think moving this quickly is a problem?</p>
<p>I imagine the predictive power of middle school SAT scores when accounting for high school records is very, very low so I wouldn’t worry about this particular issue.</p>
<p>UMTYMP student,</p>
<p>It seems to me like junior and senior year SAT scores do not rise in a vacuum. I am looking at this thread and I cannot find a single example of a sub 1200 SAT getting SAT 2250+ or comparable percentile rank PSAT score of (219+) in junior or senior year: </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/78732-7th-grade-sat-act-scores.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-act-tests-test-preparation/78732-7th-grade-sat-act-scores.html</a></p>
<p>PSAT to SAT percentile rank concordance:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-preparation/822539-silverturtles-approximations-psat-percentiles-sat-concordances.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/sat-preparation/822539-silverturtles-approximations-psat-percentiles-sat-concordances.html</a></p>
<p>Sure, 7th grade SAT scores predict later SAT scores and to a somewhat lesser extent high school grades. But I think if you had two students with identical high school records but one did better on the SAT in 7th grade it’s likely they would perform similarly regardless of the difference in 7th grade SAT scores.</p>
<p>perrazziman,</p>
<p>One of the good things about MIT seems to be the different levels of classes for each subject. For example, you can take intro to mechanics (or whatever you call it) three different ways, as far as I can tell: 8.01L, 8.01, and 8.012. So, a guy like my son who took mechanics in 9th grade at the CC and got an A can take it again as a freshman and still find it challenging because it’s, in his words, “olympiad level problem solving.”</p>
<p>A student with less experience can take 8.01 or 8.01L.</p>
<p>Even kids who do well with SAT testing in middle school aren’t guaranteed success, because there are a lot of other factors that go into becoming successful in college (um, time management comes to mind).</p>
<p>Don’t misunderstand me. MIT is hard, but it’s a good hard for kids like my son who’ve never been challenged before. It’s great to hear that my kid is finally putting in 25 hours of homework a week and is, in his words, “insanely busy”, but says he really likes it that way. So far, he’s very happy and he’s even more excited to have more control over his schedule the remaining 7 semesters.</p>
<p>And, I think it’s a good fit for kids who like to work hard that maybe don’t have the experience that some kids come in with. And yes, there are IMO gold medalists, Intel winners, and the like, on campus. My son says he’s inspired to work hard because others around him are working hard (but he finds time to play and worship, too-very important).</p>
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<p>Do you mean in junior year or all through high school?</p>
<p>^ I think the point that commentators on this board have been trying to make is that 7th-grade SAT scores are a useless parameter when it comes to evaluating a candidate’s ability to succeed at MIT.</p>
<p>^Thanks, although I did not ask if it was useless or not.</p>
<p>CalAlum, As the parent of a kid who did not attend exceptional elementary and middle schools my concern and reason for asking has to do with this comment, that I read about the significance of poor elementary and secondary education. </p>
<p>[The</a> Unraveling of Affirmative Action - WSJ.com](<a href=“The Unraveling of Affirmative Action - WSJ”>The Unraveling of Affirmative Action - WSJ)</p>
<p>“What can be done about the problem of mismatch? Most obviously, we need dramatic improvements in elementary and secondary schools to narrow the racial gaps in academic achievement. According to the National Assessment of Educational Progress, the average black 12th-grader is on a par with the average white eighth-grader. That project will take decades.” </p>
<p>I am not sure if your kid participated in the Duke TIP or CTY but mine did. His SAT was low, as was the scores of all his classmates. Hence the reason for my concern. I think it is a legitimate concern.</p>
<p>^You are overthinking this. His readiness for college is based on his level now. You would be better off telling us what his qualifications are now than to tell us about his 7th grade SAT scores if you want us to assess his readiness for MIT.</p>
<p>OP, you are indeed overthinking this.</p>
<p>I mean, what your son can do “now” is important.</p>
<p>OK, if you <em>really</em> want to go down this path, we need to know whether your son is linear, quadratic, or exponential. If the former, <em>what</em> is his y-intercept and slope.</p>
<p>I can’t work without parameters, people.</p>
<p>Alternatively, we can find out what his likely progress curve is likely to be from you, the parent, by taking the derivative. </p>
<p>If your academic development was exponential, then your son’s development is likely to be exponential because d/dx (e^x) = e^x. If however, you were linear, your son will not be able to learn anything. Zero. </p>
<p>Hope this helps. ;)</p>
<p>This is where he is now:</p>
<p>He took 5 AP college placement courses in junior year:</p>
<p>A/A in Comp Sci II (no AP Test offered this year)
5 in Biology
5 in US History
5 in English Lang
4 in Chemistry</p>
<p>+</p>
<p>Pre AP Physics and Pre AP Math</p>
<p>750 math ii SAT subject Test (which he may retake in Dec)</p>
<p>He will take the SAT in Nov and SAT Physics in Dec. </p>
<p>He had a 219 on PSAT (National Merit semifinalist). (percentile rank equivalent to 2250/ 2260 on SAT?). Also, has taken 3 SAT practice tests this year. Scored 2400, 2400, 2380. So, I think he will manage ok on the SAT</p>
<p>In Pre AP Physics he had As both semesters last year. He has a 92% in AP Physics this year. So should be good for above 700 in Physics SAT Subject.</p>
<hr>
<p>my concern is that all of this has been put together in such a short amount of time. Most of it with remedial work in high school. He has not competed in any competitions math olympiads, summer school programs etc. His 7th grade SAT is sub 1200 and nobody scored above 500 in any section of the SAT in a class of 450 in his middle school. So, basically it was little more than baby sitting these kids.</p>
<p>yeah yeah collegealum :)</p>
<p>Now show me an SAT TIP of 1000 who went to 2400. lol.and calculate the derivitive, slope and intercept of that.</p>
<p>The average gain I believe is 60 points a year. (So, put up or …)</p>
<p>Kids in the article had great grades, but bottom 25th test scores compared to the other admits. That’s not your kid.</p>
<p>OTOH, I was the smart kid from the lousy school, and I did fine as a social sciences major, but gave up on hard sciences way too easily in retrospect. I think I’d have done better if someone had given me the “this is hard for everyone, so suck it up and work harder” speech, but it makes me worry for my kid, too.</p>