<p>I think a lot of people are ignoring the fact that the grandfather is (potentially) a toxic person who, according to the OP, mistreats his wife. She doesn’t want to stay home because of laziness or just not wanting to go. She has a pretty good reason not to go. Just because he is family, doesn’t mean the OP should have to tolerate his behavior.</p>
Question re: Grandparents and holiday breaks (Thanksgiving and Christmas) for college-aged students.
<p>Agree about not wanting to be around toxic people. But the OP has already invited them for Thanksgiving so must have learned to deal with him at some level? </p>
<p>I don’t want to speak for the OP, but I think it’s harder to deal with difficuly people on their ‘territory’, so to say. It’s kind of going back to “my house, my rules”. Even if it’s not on a conscious level, I think most people (even the most difficult ones) are a little more polite and respectful when they are in someone else’s home as guests.</p>
<p>Hoggirl,</p>
<pre><code>I’m sorry. I was talking in general about many of the posts not to you directly. I thought you were going to great lengths to try and appease everyone. Which as we all know…never works but we continue to try anyway.
</code></pre>
<p>As far as FIL goes I would have no problem telling the kids that he is out of line and that his behavior is unacceptable. It is just not polite to call him out. Your mother in law has figured out how she wants to deal with him and I am sure appreciates that you put up with him for her sake.</p>
<p>I just believe in general that the nuclear family needs to take care of one another and put one another first.</p>
<p>@acollegestudent @sevmom </p>
<p>Yes, fil is toxic, but, of course, I have had to learn to deal with him. What choice is there? He is my husband’s father. I do agree with the “territory” point. He is MUCH more disrespectful to mil in their home than in mine, though he certainly isn’t above it here. I didn’t want to turn this into a fil-bashing thread, but I will say he must have not been paying attention to the “cherish” part of the vows. </p>
<p>It’s all exacerbated by the fact that I have no family so there is no choice but to spend holiday time with them as I can offer nowhere else to go. There is no reason we can’t be with dh’s family even though I would really prefer to stay home alone. That, again, is my own issue.</p>
<p>@sax - thank you for that. When ds was younger I went to great lengths to not disparage fil to him. As he has matured, he can see that Grandpa does not treat Grandma as he should. Fortunately, my dh is wonderful, so ds has had GREAT modeling on “husbanding” from him. 
</p>
<p>Fil just has a very critical spirit. Ds has also felt it. Fil’s approval only comes with accomplishment, achievement, and doing what HE thinks is best. He’s just hard to be around on so many levels. I can’t tell you how many times he told ds he needed to be a doctor notwithstanding the fact that ds has ZERO interest. :/</p>
<p>OP, perhaps schedule a time to volunteer somewhere on the day that your son goes to see his grandparents. That way you have a legitimate obligation that will conflict with you going there. Then leave it up to your H whether he wants to tag along with your son or not.</p>
<p>I don’t blame you at all for feeling short changed and even angry that you are stuck with your in laws. </p>
<p>My H’s sibling is totally goofy. She makes all sort of stuff up about all of our pasts. It was very important to me that my kids knew this as soon as they were old enough. I had nightmares of us dying and them believing all the stupid stories she tells. So they are polite when she is here but they know better.</p>
<p>You are 3 hours away–go up and come back the same day. We do it around here for football games.
Yes, it’s time spent in the car etc. but that’s a good time to talk with son. </p>
<p>I’ve done it plenty of times for TG and/or Christmas . Only it’s 4 hours for us. My parents are elderly and my mom is not in good health so that’s the way we’ve done it for many years. Jump in the car, drive, eat dinner, celebrate as a family and then come back home. NO spending the night. Yes, we fudge the dates --Christmas day is at our house and a few days later we make a trek for a second Christmas. Sometimes TG comes on Friday. We aren’t slaves to the calendar.
It’s a long day but better than stressing over stuff–parents are happier having seen us, we’re happier having seen
them and it really isn’t that hard. Leave at 8–get there at noon–leave at 7-home at 11-jump in the bed. </p>
<p>Hugs to you. I’m sure everyone in your family already knows your feelings about FIL. Very well. They will appreciate you more for sucking it up one day or two a year–believe me. My suggestion: Don’t see them on all those OTHER days of the year–save your visits for more special events so you’ll stay sane with a purpose. Do the visits for your MIL and your H and Son </p>
<p>@sevmom and @gouf78 </p>
<p>I would be THRILLED with an up-and-back-in-one-day trip, but that will not be “enough” for my in-laws. </p>
<p>Yes, with 3 hours it definitely can be done in one day if you really want to minimize time with the inlaws… We have done that for going to football games as well at one of kid’s schools that was almost 3 hours away. We stayed overnight sometimes but also went up and back in the same day a few times. I’m sorry you have no family on your side . We have no grandparents left at all on either side now but we do both have siblings (although none live near us).</p>
<p>“that will not be enough for my inlaws.” That’s where the boundaries come in. It may just have to be enough at times.</p>
<p>You are looking to have it your way, and wanting to feel good about it. I don’t think you can have it both ways. If your son goes on his schedule, so that he can have time with his friends when he wants it, your MIL isn’t going to get her family Christmas. I agree that they can come to you for Thanksgiving, but it sounds like you are trying to change both holidays, so that the only ‘Christmas’ MIL gets is your son for 2 days in mid-December. Yes, that’s what he wants, and I think he needs to give a little if you want MIL to have a happy face on. If you want MIL happy, then I think you know she needs a little more than just your son on a Tues/Wed in mid-December. Only you can decide if that is worth it.</p>
<p>I no longer do the big holidays with family. I know they are unhappy with me but I can’t change how they feel, only how I feel. I do make my kids visit other times in the year, but <em>I</em> don’t do the holidays. Sometimes that means I’m not with my children on holidays and I accept that.</p>
<p>Funny, we can’t get our 21 and 14yo to go away on holidays at all. They love the family traditions and getting together with family. Every year H offers up a trip over Christmas, and the kids are all “you go, we’re staying”. LOL. We have your usually assortment of “characters” that you would see in any movie, and that is what makes the holidays fun. Many of our holiday traditions occur right in our house (big meals with friends and family) or with H’s big family. My kids love it. I love it but get really stressed out. Do what works for you. but keep in mind that FIL may not be around forever and you probably don’t want to alienate MIL. And at some point in the not so near future, your S may not be coming home to you anymore. Keep all options open. </p>
<p>This may sound bad but if DH is indifferent then let him take the fall. Have him say he can’t get the days off. Sometimes the spouses happiness needs to come before the mothers. DH and I have been married for almost 27 years and together for over 33. I have spent plenty of time with MIL over the years and while most of the time we end up there once in a while DH just says he can’t get time off to MIL so that we can have a family holiday without the stress. There is nothing wrong with you wanting one Christmas without a toxic FIL. </p>
<p>@Hoggirl, I think everyone is also forgetting that you must really miss your Mom and Dad. This is a big anniversary year of their passing, 25 years. Maybe your H and DS need to be sensitive to your needs, especially this year. No matter what you think of your in-laws, they still aren’t your own parents. I think you should be complimented on going to your in-laws for every single holiday for the past many years, more than two decades.</p>
<p>Maybe this Christmas, the three of you have a Christmas just you together at your home with no one else. There is something to be said for celebrating Christmas Eve night as a family, and then on Christmas day staying in comfy clothes near to the Christmas tree with carols playing. </p>
<p>Might I suggest maybe after brunch/lunch on Christmas Day, the three of you visiting the cemetery and laying two Christmas wreathes upon your parents graves. Beautiful evergreen wreaths with bows. It can be something very healing for you in your heart of hearts: spending a Christmas in tribute to your parents. </p>
<p>Perhaps when the three of you return home, you can look at photos from your childhood of your parents, their wedding album and your wedding album, if your parents were alive at the time. Talk about what your parents’ traditions were at Christmas time. Maybe make your Mom’s special dessert with your son from her recipe book or her hand-written recipe cards. Make it a very special day just for you. </p>
<p>Families do need to look out for one another and H and DS also need to recognize that DS’ heritage and family also includes your parents. </p>
<p>It’s hard when there’s a generational shift but it has to happen eventually. You are at a natural time to invite the Grandparent’s to your house for both Thanksgiving and some time near Christmas - instead of always traveling to them. Or, you could split the difference and celebrate a Happy Thanksmas sometime in between so everyone can have a calmer and travel free holiday. </p>
<p>The fly in the ointment is how unpleasant your FIL is and how you find it hard to stand up for yourself. Years of giving in to them and putting up with him are not undone easily. I sense that H has your back but won’t be proactive in any way, so it is mainly up to you. </p>
<p>You’ve already invited them for Thanksgiving and told them why you can’t travel so that’s done. S will visit early in the Xmas break so that is done. It may be more relaxing for you and H to go visit (for one day max!!) sometime between Xmas and New Year’s and since S will not be with you, you can use that as an excuse to not stay too long. Keep repeating, to yourself and to your MIL, that things have changed now with S being away at school and needing his break time to be at home. Keep repeating! Maybe he can visit again in May, before he starts any summer job. Keep repeating!</p>
<p>If anyone insists on knowing why, it wouldn’t be out of place for you to tell MIL that you find it uncomfortable to be around FIL. Surely she knows what you mean. If she pretends not to, or tries to evade, keep repeating. You’re not up to traveling, you need some time at home, and if pushed, you don’t find it comfortable to be around FIL. </p>
<p>In Post #34, I mean spending Christmas Eve just the three of you: yourself, DH and DS, and same for Christmas day.</p>
<p>There is a way of changing an established and perhaps unhealthy pattern naturally and without conflict, and a way of doing it conspicuously and with it. Sometimes, you have no choice but to go with the latter, either because you’re stuck in a totally intolerable situation or because the person you’re dealing with is so utterly unreasonable that they won’t accept any compromise or boundary setting. But that doesn’t seem like the case here.</p>
<p>You haven’t been living next door to your noxious in-laws for twenty years. You’ve been seeing them about eight times a year during your kid’s childhood. Maybe, if your FIL is really terrible, that was too much then, but that’s the past. In the future, it should be very, very easy to significantly cut down on those visits. Your son isn’t going to be around anyway, so fewer opportunities for a family visit. In other cases, there is no reason that you can’t sometimes skip the visit and let your husband and/or son go on their own. It is not reasonable or kind to aim for a scenario in which you only see your in-laws once a year.</p>
<p>You’re already changing the holiday schedule in a reasonable way by saying that it isn’t practical for you to go to them for Thanksgiving, as you’ve apparently been doing in the past. Since your in-laws have two children, it may or may not be feasible for them to come to yours for Thanksgiving, but in either case, changing both an established Thanksgiving and Christmas tradition in a single year - to the point where it is possible that the grandparents will be spending neither holiday with their son and grandson – is excessive and almost bound to create tension. Spending major holidays with family when it is feasible to do so is a default, not some absurd demand. If people can’t get off from work in early December for a family get-together, then the “two weeks earlier” plan doesn’t really work, and it is totally understandable for a grandmother who has previously spent TG and Christmas with both of her children and their families to be hurt and angry if you don’t make the trip.</p>
<p>I love my inlaws but 8x/year would be too much for me. And every Christmas at their house would be too much also. They live around 5 - 6 hours away but it takes 7 - 8 hours during the holidays and that is part of the problem. That’s why I suggested some time between Christmas and New Year’s. You don’t have little kids that believe in Santa anymore so the actual day is not as important. </p>
<p>Thanks for all the insights. I think I have been unclear. We have spent every Thanksgiving with in-laws alternating between our home and theirs. We have NOT been spending Christmas proper with them since ds was four years old as dh put his foot down and said we would no longer travel on Christmas Day since Santa came to our house. 
But, we have always had a family get together <em>sometime</em> over the Christmas school break. Sometimes it has been before Christmas and sometimes it has been after. @apprenticeprof makes an excellent observation that it would be a lot to change both holiday routines - although if they choose to come here for Thanksgiving this year, that really isn’t a change. At least not this year. We aren’t really changing up what we have done for Christmas other than attempting to do it during the week rather than on a weekend. It’s not going to be an issue for us, but it may be an issue for sil and her family. So, @apprenticeprof in correct in that it may not “work,” in that regard. But as @greenwitch pointed out, we really are having a “generational shift” this year. Sil’s daughter stayed local for college and was only 30 minutes away from parents and grandparents. The reality is that dh is not close to his sister, ds is not close to his cousin. They don’t dislike each other, but they don’t communicate unless we are all together at in-laws’ home. It’s the “forced” nature of the get-together that bugs me. At least it feels forced to me. I really don’t think sil and her family care if we get together or not. I think it is mil wishing for a closeness/connection that just doesn’t exist. </p>