Rant: Why is Heightism a joke?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Yes, why is it? Tons of studies have shown that short (people under 5 foot 8, but not midgets) people, controlling for all factors, get paid less than tall people. Studies have shown that like 99% of Fortune 500 CEO’s are above the average American height (5 foot 8). The VAST majority of our presidential candidates have been above the average height for their time (even James Madison was not INCREDIBLY short for his time). Yes, and already in response to those who say that tall people ARE naturally more intelligent (as a study coming out of the Princeton economics department recently showed), could it be because of the way they have insiduously been treated? Does it really seem valid to say, off-hand, that short people are not as smart as tall people, just by looking at their current achievement? Would anyone say that so easily about Blacks or women, etc, without encountering some controversy (think Larry Summers, think James D. Watson–and they said their statements in a much tamer way than economists openly say the tall are smarter than the short).</p>

<p>With women, short guys also get screwed–and its a joke. Women openly say we want guys that are tall. Would they openly say they want white guys or black guys ONLY? And where does all this come from…some genetic feeling that 6000 years ago short cavemen could have done less than tall cavemen? Don’t other factors (like intelligence, wealth and kindness) matter more in a current civil society.</p>

<p>And I hate it when girls say that guys reject fat girls. At least fat people can control that in SOME way. Even if you are large boned, there are very few people who cannot work out enough to come to a height that is close to average. And these people are few and far in between. At least personally, I recognize whether a girl is out of shape or whether that is the best she can do. Same goes with ugliness. You don’t know how much ugliness people can hide behind makeup, behind a haircut, etc. It is controllable. How do I control height? Get dangerous surgery done to expand my legs and make them all disproportional? Or take human growth hormone that is not regulated by the FDA?</p>

<p>And yeah, we make such a big deal about how guys reject girls for being fat (or for something else that they can USUALLY control). Why is heightism a joke? Discrimination in the workplace occurs with short people as much as it occurs among some minority groups. I understand that certain races and the female sex were officially subjugated for many years (and short people were not), but in today’s world, short people are still discriminated against. And they are made to be a joke.</p>

<p>What would you think about short people banding together to fight against heightism? It would be a joke! On television, producers have the gall to ONLY show short people who are jokes (except on Entourage, in which E still gets made fun of for his height occasionally). Think: George from Seinfeld, Carlton from Fresh Prince, Spence from King of Queens.</p>

<p>I’m short and angry…and please don’t tell me it’s a joke.</p>

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<p>That’s why so many short people become actors.</p>

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<p>As a fellow vertically challenged person, I do know how you feel. But, life is too short (no pun intended) to constantly feel slighted and to focus on that one aspect. I have reminded people that height really is not a sign of intelligence, and then I say, just look at you… with a smile. I tease my taller co-workers and make a deal that I’ll get the low reaching stuff if they will get the things up high. If you can’t change it, might as well learn to live with it.</p>

<p>I find most of my frustrations with clothes. I hate that I have to get just about all my clothes from the petite section and that low end stores don’t even have a petite section. I love Target, but apparently they don’t love me. :frowning: </p>

<p>It’s definately worse for boys. My youngest son had a rough year in 8th grade when he was shorter then the majority of the other kids. He seems to be growing now and is finally taller then me. It’s disheartning to know that his size affects his happiness. Somehow telling a boy, “good things come in small packages” didn’t comfort him like it did me but being taller then both me and his sister does.</p>

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<p>“At least fat people can control that in SOME way.”</p>

<p>So what? This is a fairness argument, and no one with any sense thinks that physical attraction is or ever could be fair. Whether fat is controllable or not simply doesn’t matter. Bad hygiene is controllable, ugliness is not, and it’s equally legitimate to reject a potential romantic partner for either one.</p>

<p>You can sometimes bring about cultural change over time (heterosexual males in China gradually stopped fetishizing bound feet, for instance). But in any given time and place, some people will attract lots of partners and others won’t, and that’s not going to be based on strength of character alone.</p>

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<p>Someone watched House this week…</p>

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<p>OP,</p>

<p>I appreciate your anger. As the mother of a daughter who needed growth hormone therapy, I was amazed at the insensitivity and thoughtlessness of even very educated people and those who were supposedly our friends. </p>

<p>Blue hair and tattoos are fair game, big noses and height are not.</p>

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<p>I think it’s a residual from ancient history- back when size did matter (warring knights and all…). It really doesn’t matter now, except in sports. I know someone who actually sought taller women because he didn’t want short man-children. Aaarrgh.</p>

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<p>So? I don’t think many short people become actors…many short males try to become actors.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your sentiments. I am a guy, I just reread my post and saw one sentence where I came across as being a female (I wrote “we”…) It is very frustrating, and I feel for your son. I have to go through the same stuff in college, even though it is not as overt. You can definitely see yourself (and other short people) excluded from conversations or treated as if they were children (it is not just me, it is a general observation I have made).</p>

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<p>I am not thinking physical attraction should be fair, but I don’t know that the discrimination against short people is based solely on a genetic physical attraction…it is compounded by stereotypes in the media. And I think it is based partly on the old-fashioned belief that tall people are necessarily stronger and can protect women more effectively…and this is false in today’s society.</p>

<p>And in terms of control, it absolutely factors into my rant. Notice this is a rant and a display of anger against something that I think is unfair…yes, physical attraction is not always fair, but we should attempt to eliminate all the unfairness that is caused by external forces, though of course some genetic dispositions toward beauty (for example facial symmetry) are to be expected. </p>

<p>All the same, why is it fair to publicly make fun of short (or ugly) people in the media without giving it a second thought. Hanna, if I came to you and said you were ugly or gangly, would that be acceptable? No. But if you came to me and casually said “oh, you’re short!” it might be considered rude, but it certainly wouldn’t be considered AS rude as if I said something similar to you.</p>

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<p>I have realized that. BUt I want to bring cultural change (a good thing about being young and naive is that we ignore the “over time” part and can view change in terms of revolutions…), and the first think I need to make clear is that fighting for this is not a joke. </p>

<p>Also, a separate question…if those of dark skin have been discriminated against for years in different cultures (even when they were separated), would we say there is a “natural” attraction that those with fair skin have? No. And it certainly has become more instinctively easier to support a dark skinned person than it was, say, 60 years ago.</p>

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<p>No, but I will now!</p>

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<p>Agreed. And I’m sorry about my somewhat miseducated statements about growth hormone (I don’t know if it is regulated by the FDA, but I think those that are available without prescription are seldom FDA-regulated, and often come from outside the country). All my best to your daughter.</p>

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<p>“of course some genetic dispositions toward beauty (for example facial symmetry) are to be expected.”</p>

<p>How is facial symmetry different from height? There is about the same amount of cross-cultural evidence that (1) straight women naturally prefer men who are taller than they are and (2) people naturally prefer symmetrical faces. I’m very asymmetrical, but I’m not going to argue with those findings.</p>

<p>I don’t think making fun of people’s looks is OK. But you propose that their perceived control over those looks ought to play some role in this. I don’t. Going up to someone and saying, “Your hairstyle is ugly!” is just as rude as saying, “Your nose is ugly!” Similarly, it’s just as bad to discriminate people because of their religion (controllable) as it is to discriminate against them because of their race (uncontrollable).</p>

<p>I’m also surprised that, if you think that people shouldn’t be judged negatively for characteristics they can’t control, you’re prepared to judge straight women who prefer tall men. Do you think they can control that preference and just decide to like short men better?</p>

<p>If you want to have a conversation about eliminating bigotry, that’s fine, but then sexual attractiveness isn’t the issue. </p>

<p>“Notice this is a rant and a display of anger against something that I think is unfair”</p>

<p>So what? You could rant to the walls if you wanted to. If you rant to other people on a discussion board, you should be prepared to stand behind what you say.</p>

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<p>my husband is about the shortest man of all my boyfriends.
He is 5’8"- I am 5’3" ( almost)</p>

<p>I like his height cause I like to borrow his clothes ( unfortunately- that is a trait he doesn’t care for too much)</p>

<p>Oh well</p>

<p>but why are mens clothes cheaper/made better/have more features at same price than womens? not fair.</p>

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<p>Studies have proven, jump roping, play basketball can increase growth. It is true.</p>

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<p>RE: hanna</p>

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<p>Point taken about facial symmetry in relationships. But I think in male-to-male interactions, facial asymmetry (among males) is not as bad as shortness. Again, refer to statistics about CEO’s. I don’t have similar statistics about workplace discrimination against those with facial asymmetry. But taken, you were referring specifically to my section ranting against women who complain about their weight. These women (just like overweight men) can control the factor so they have a solution to that discrimination. Short people cannot. I am not saying that, when controllable, short people should not “choose” to be tall if there are public benefits from it. But we have no choice. And also, I have to note that there is much more complaining by overweight or obese people (in my experience, esp. among overweight women) than there is among short men. And this complaining has generated some results…men are now considered crude if they say they don’t like a woman if she is too fat. Most men in college, if they tell their girlfriend that a woman is overweight and therefore they aren’t attracted to her, would receive at least some scorn. Maybe I can achieve the same response when women say to men that they don’t date other men because they are short.</p>

<p>Also, there is the argument that men make that being overweight is a reflection of character–that being overweight, even today, is universally seen as being unhealthy (and therefore bad) for the very individual who is overweight. Are there similar objective measures today that tall people are healthier or smarter than the short simply by virtue of being tall? There have been studies that have shown that, in the past, short people are much more likely to die from certain diseases than tall people. But vaccines for these diseases have, I would suppose, lowered the difference in how short people would fare against, say, malaria. </p>

<p>So, using the old studies is akin to making the claim that overweight people are objectively in a worse position because, in the 16th century, they could not do the same field work that thinner people could do (again, this is a hypothetical scenario). Using old studies which include threats that are not there today leads to inaccurate assumptions if we apply them to today.</p>

<p>Also, if one made the argument that overweight people are NOT at a health disadvantage because of their weight but choose to be overweight because of a preference (a dubious argument), then I still think there should be some public scorn upon those who discriminate against shorter people. And this is because shorter people don’t have the chance to choose. Does that mean people should be more physically attracted to short people? No, but it can mean that women who tell men that they are too short to be datable receive the same reaction as men who tell women that they are too fat or ugly to be datable.</p>

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<p>I agree, making fun of looks isn’t OK…but I add the condition that this applies to the extent that the looks are uncontrollable. You claim that “going up to someone and saying …” First of all, I don’t think this is true. If it is true, then I would propose that it is because society doesn’t make as big a deal about ugliness (I prefer the prhase “facial asymmetry, large features, etc.” because it is more universal) OR height as it does about race. Would you go to someone and say that “I’m not attracted to you because your hairstyle is ugly” as easily as you would say “I’m not attracted to you because you are of [____ race]” or “I’m not attracted to you because you are short?” I would rank these statements in the following order on the scale or rudeness (less to more)</p>

<p>hairstyle (controllable) < height (uncontrollable but less publicly noted) < race (publicly noted…with good reason!..and uncontrollable)</p>

<p>It IS publicly worse to discriminate against someone because of controllable factors than uncontrollable factors. And it is NOT publicly as bad to discriminate against people because of their religion as it is to discriminate against them because of race. This comes down to empirical claims, so neither of us has any evidence. If you want to debate this based on personal ethics, I would gladly do so in a separate post.</p>

<p>I’m also not directly judging straight women who “naturally” prefer tall men. But first of all, I question the issue about “naturally.” Have there been similar studies done with race? Early studies in which it seemed more “natural” to discriminate against partners of different races but became less “natural” as the Civil Rights movement or as public awareness increased? I don’t know how much they can control their preferences…and if they cannot, then I don’t judge them as much as I judge society for making the situation worse.</p>

<p>About the rant comment: it is fair. It is a display of personal frustration (valid or not) about a situation. Is the background behind the frustration rational? May or may not be…but then again, similar rants of anger about people discriminating sexually against Asians in America have been made. And rants have been made about a person being depressed, which, if not a situation of a mental chemical imbalance, could be seen as irrational (psychologists such as Albert Ellis would say so). Their “irrational” depression is treated with sympathy, but this isn’t. Maybe that is indicative of the main argument I am trying to make…or rather, the main rant I’m trying to construct.</p>

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<p>I wish there were more people like you out there. I am 5 foot 7, so I might even consider your husband luckier in the dating scene :slight_smile: About men’s clothes? Maybe because women agree to pay more for their clothes? I don’t know!</p>

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<p>I’m 18. If you had only told me this four years ago…I would be doing this nonstop.</p>

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<p>How about those lifts that go inside your shoes?</p>

<p>I know quite a few couples, including my parents, where the man is shorter than the woman–so what?</p>

<p>H’s boss is incredibly short (5-3, 5-4?) and also incredibly successful/wealthy–and his wife must be 5-9.</p>

<p>Have confidence, act like it doesn’t matter to you, and go for what (or whom)
you want. </p>

<p>Women want tall guys? Not really. Women want guys who love them, care for them, pay attention to them.</p>

<p>Two of my sons are short and they’ll just have to deal with it. Another son is tall–and everyone expects him to be a leader (a burden, since he’s really a slacker at heart).</p>

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<p>ummm…if you’re talking about “heightism” it’s not just about short people. What about tall people, especially tall women? “Do you play basketball?” “Did Your Mom Feed you Stringbeans?” Yeah…there are tasteless people everywhere.
I’m a tall woman and I have to say, I’ve gotten over it for the most part. I don’t slouch anymore. But I still won’t wear high heels. Flats are usually in though so that’s cool.
You make the best of what you got. Ranting would just raise my blood pressure - so I gave it up years ago. I try to find cool role models like Uma Thurman and Nichole Kidman. OK , they are gorgeous, but hey, they’re tall women!
How about Dustin Hoffman? He doesn’t seem to have too much trouble with his height.</p>

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Maybe, it might add a few inches.</p>

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<p>I would rephrase that as “I know very few,” but that is my experience. But again, to say that there are a few couples like this is similar to saying that discrimination in the workplace is not a problem because there are a few successful women or a few successful Blacks. Your Dad may have had to cultivate some really excellent characteristics in other fields to have “married up,” (sorry had to use the phrase…).</p>

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<p>Again, that isn’t the norm…is it the norm where you live? Because then I’ll move there.</p>

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<p>That plays a factor, but I don’t think its strictly true. Women are much more tolerant when it comes to facial looks, but not as tolerant when it comes to height…I’ve seen this, also:</p>

<p>[Body</a> height and romantic attraction: A meta-analytic test of the male-taller norm](<a href=“Atypon: Online Publishing Platform & Web Development Tools”>Atypon: Online Publishing Platform & Web Development Tools)</p>

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<p>Agreed about tall women. I think women are kinder to tall women than men are to short men, but that is my experience. And yes, if there is discrimination against taller women in a nonsexual atmosphere, it is harder to measure in terms of CEO’s or presidents, etc. because there are not that many women CEO’s or presidents (I think due to historical sexism).</p>

<p>Also, Dustin Hoffman had to get psychotherapy for his problems with height. And he is one of VERY few actors who are short.</p>

<p>[Short</a> Persons Support: News Articles : The Economist: Short guys finish last. Heightism](<a href=“http://www.shortsupport.org/News/0106.html]Short”>http://www.shortsupport.org/News/0106.html)</p>

<p>Not a propaganda website, just an easily accessible article from the God of all publications, THE ECONOMIST</p>

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<p>I think Randy Newman had the definitive word(s) on this topic:</p>

<p>Short People got no reason
To live</p>

<p>They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin’ great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet</p>

<p>Well, I don’t want no Short People
Don’t want no Short People
Don’t want no Short People
Round here</p>

<p>Short People are just the same
As you and I
(A Fool Such As I)
All men are brothers
Until the day they die
(It’s A Wonderful World)</p>

<p>Short People got nobody
To love</p>

<p>They got little baby legs
And they stand so low
You got to pick ‘em up
Just to say hello
They got little cars
That go beep, beep, beep
They got little voices
Goin’ peep, peep, peep
They got grubby little fingers
And dirty little minds
They’re gonna get you every time
Well, I don’t want no Short People
Don’t want no Short People
Don’t want no Short People
'Round here</p>

<p>I guess that’s pretty “heightist” :smiley:
Why is it a joke? Because it’s freaking funny, that’s why!</p>

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<p>OK. How about Michael J Fox, Al Pacino and Tom Cruise?
All short (and handsome guys). Seems like they did OK in the career and ladies dept.
Life is unfair. You make the best of what you got. These guys did.
Yeah, it’s harder. But tough circumstances and hardship build character. And you could be in much worse shape (like no legs at all instead of short legs) …so count your blessings. I bet Michael J Fox is not too concerned about his height at this point…<br>
Ranting might be a good first step… but it’s a really poor long term strategy.<br>
I read the EC article. “Shrimp” is a hilarious acronym. Not to be insensitive…it just is.</p>

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<p>You don’t want to be seen as someone who has a chip on his shoulder. (you know “he’s that angry little guy”) Turn that anger into ambition toward your goals and your height won’t matter. Some of the most successful partners at the big law firm I worked at were 5’7" and less and guess what? No one cared. They were smart and excelled at what they did. People admired them for who they were. They had good personalities, dressed well, and just had it all together.</p>