He described doing it. Maybe if we didn’t dismiss everything as locker room talk we wouldn’t have guys who clearly think it’s ok.
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And if there was a witness who came forward and said that, I have no issue. I wish he had a criminal trial for Jean Carroll.
But just because someone says something disturbing or writes something gross on a billboard doesn’t make it illegal. It’s icky.
The rest the legal system will have to ferret that out.
But you are equating words with assault. I’m
not a lawyer but they are not.
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I would have a symmetric issue whether it is my son or daughter.
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He was describing an act of assault. I never said he engaged in it in the interview. But you know, there are people out there who will go “well if the president says it’s ok to do then I can do it”.
Yes but he was using words. I said it was a comment and you said this.
I didn’t say he did that. I said and we all know that he made the comment that he did that. Two very different things.
I honestly don’t know what he’s done other than all the gossip and I don’t know if any or all or none were consensual.
People say stupid things. Sadly people also do stupid things.
But saying something stupid isn’t sexual assault.
But let’s move past.
Let’s hope something good comes from the Cornell case. Justice, if needed, of course. And I read there’s some sort of loophole that needs to be closed and perhaps it will be to at least help future victims.
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Fabulous idea, since you’re all simply repeating yourselves.
Parenting is hard. Not sure how many parents really know their kids even we all are trying to raise a good kid.
There was one time I read my son’s discord messages, and found one member made very gross comments. And that kid is a good kid in parents, teachers and classmate’s eyes.
Duke lacrosse lawyer warns of rush to judgment in Cornell case:
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Worth the watch. Thanks for sharing.
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A Google search came up with shocking and disturbing stats. Only 2% of REPORTED sexual assaults result in a conviction.
https://worldmetrics.org/sexual-assault-conviction-statistics/
When considering the numbers, it’s no wonder that so many cases go unreported. When we see how this young woman (and others who have been assaulted in similar scenarios where drugs & alcohol were consumed) is being dragged & victim shamed into backing down - well, it’s no wonder so many of us would choose the bear.
In my observation and opinion, the toxic treatment of women in general in our country has escalated over the past few years (I have my opinions on why, but I will leave it at that). Blaming fraternities and thinking that banning them will solve the problem, is like trying to fix a broken dam with a band aid. The behaviors need to be addressed in many aspects of daily life. Our method of investigation, prosecution and conviction need to drastically change. The message needs to be clear: sexual assaults will not be tolerated and the penalties for the guilty parties will be severe, regardless of whether “a good boy’s life will be ruined”.
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And it’s probably only the worst/most serious instances that get reported too. We all know unwanted groping is sexual assault, but who would expect a university administration to follow up on that? How many of us here, in fact, have had that happen to them and felt like it would be a waste of time reporting it to anyone?
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Yes, I think the very sad truth is that most women have had unwanted sexual advances. I’m raising my own hand here. Happened to me as a teen with a family “friend” who would always grope when hugging. I told my mom and wasn’t believed. I was 13. You can bet that sent a really clear message to me about “reporting”.
I had a close friend in HS who was raped. She never reported. Blamed herself for having taken the drink from the guy.
And in college…SA was rampant. And everyone knew what the problem houses were with the out of control parties that weren’t safe for women. If students knew, you bet admins knew too and yet, just like in this case, they failed to protect their students.
I see it in my own community where there are complaints after complaints after complaints and the university does nothing to shut down the houses.
And based on some of the comments here, it is clear to me that not much has actually changed in our society and frankly it’s beyond disheartening, it’s sickening.
I’ll leave with this - How many of you felt compelled to take your sons to self defense classes before they started college? Sent your sons to school with rape whistles? Made sure your sons had a buddy system for parties and first dates? Sent cup condoms to make sure their drinks weren’t spiked? This is the every day lived experience of girls/women. And when assault happens there are still those talking about what the girl wore/drank/previously consented to, etc… That. Doesn’t. Matter!
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I don’t like Greek life personally. We didn’t pay for Greek life. We told our son that if he joined a frat, all the costs were on him, apart from what we would pay for his accommodation at any college. He joined the frat and didn’t tell us about it for a year. He did not live in a frat house though, so it wasn’t a traditional frat in that sense. We liked that he lived with some friends who weren’t in the frat.
Lots of kids want to be part of Greek life. I don’t think Greek life encourages rape. I do think it can encourage more herd mentality though, because these kids see each other every day and often live together while at college.
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As a society, we need to stop excusing disrespectful behavior as “boys will be boys.” We need to raise our children from the start to be respectful of others and of themselves. I witnessed “boys will be boys” attitudes when my D was in middle school, and when I spoke with the superintendent about it, he basically shrugged it off as normal behavior for the age group. I put my S in a different middle school, because I was not about to put him in that situation. We have to keep working to maybe someday change attitudes about how boys should behave. That way, hopefully there will be fewer guys who think it’s okay to SA women & more guys who will stand up against it.
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I might not go so far as to say it “encourages” rape, but there are a number of studies that show - for example below - fraternity membership is associated with a higher degree of sexual aggression, and women in sororities are more likely to be victims of sexual assault.
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I think we are witnessing a general corrosion in society.
Are you not all confounded by the Luigi Mangione circus- where HORDES of people are defending him for shooting an unarmed man in the back- in broad daylight- in a clearly well orchestrated, premeditated assassination? And these “super fans” are using as THEIR excuse “well, an insurance company denied my grandma chemotherapy because they said she was already terminal from end stage kidney failure”.
People cheering yesterday that an execution via lethal injection failed- so instead of the woman dying in 3-5 minutes, she’s now got an agonizing, lengthy death ahead of her? Read the “she’s finally getting what’s coming to her” comments on any news website. As if death via lethal injection is somehow “getting off easy”?
We are circling the drain ethically, morally, and every other way. So the increased violence-- against women? Against children? Who is surprised?
Every day I see another public official being arrested for abusing a nephew, a neighbor, their kid’s middle school “bestie”. Where does it end?
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What I find scary is I’m guessing - most parents likely think they are already doing this. And maybe they are. I believe my children were. What goes through someone’s mind to do something they clearly know is wrong?
@Lindagaf mentioned herd mentality. It’s scary. Boys and girls do things (not talking about criminal things) because of this and we might have as well growing up. We even see it on here - well all my friends are going to this college, etc.
It’s really a scary and serious issue - and not sure how or if it can ever be solved.
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Limiting access to social media by minors is a start.
A middle school near me had a presentation/roundtable recently, and among the “stats” presented were the number of middle school kids who had watched graphic and violent porn on someone’s phone. These are pre-pubescent kids who are learning that %^ is a violent and gruesome activity which does not require consent.
We don’t know what we don’t know. 12 year old girls being bullied into posting photos-- by someone they think is a 13 year old boy who turns out to be a 45 year old man who is selling those images. School bus drivers who now have to monitor the bus video for SA in the back in addition to driving safely and obeying traffic laws. Who wants their 11 year old kid taking off their clothes on a school bus to avoid being taunted as a loser? While their classmates take photos?
I wanted to cry when a neighbor of mine-- a careful, loving parent- described the roundtable to me. I remember when the local DARE officer came to speak at my kid’s middle school- we thought it was so “out there” to acknowledge that kids experiment with daddy’s vodka…
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And violent movies and video games that parents seem to have no problem letting their littles watch and play.
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