This happened to a friend of D19, which I only found out about years later - or I might have said something to the parent. She was hanging out with a family friend who she had a big crush on. He was encouraging her to drink. She barely remembered what happened but physically it was clear. She didn’t report it - even though her friends apparently encouraged her to - because everyone knew she liked him and she had been drinking, so she didn’t think she would be believed. She was 14. It’s sickening.
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Where is the context for the drinking with 14 year old? How this can even happen?
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Someone’s house with the parents out, I assume. I’m not sure how old the guy was at the time, my impression was he was still in high school too but older, I guess junior or senior. Of course it’s hardly uncommon for high schoolers to experiment with alcohol.
On the Cornell case, emphasis mine.
NYT:
The district attorney, Matthew Van Houten, said in a statement after the news conference that he supported the appointment of Ms. James and that his office would cooperate fully with hers.
“It has become clear that we were not provided the full picture by the university,” he said. “The focus has been and should continue to be on the victims.”
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Another angle to this case. It turns out one of the 7, named as a John Doe, is also suing Cornell for having found him guilty of “attempted sexual exploitation” - based on his role in the group chat and heading in to see what was going on. He was found not responsible on two other charges (sexual assault and sexual exploitation, because there was no physical contact, and at the time he went in the room Jane Doe was apparently under a sheet). FYI, his punishment was: a one way no-contact order, a class on social media use, sexual harassment and bystander intervention, and.. an essay. He appealed within Cornell, appeal turned down in January of this year, so he sued. All this is included within the Jane Doe filing.
Also: Part of what is revealed in there is that all 7 were charged with something related to sexual assault, so the theory someone posted above about their punishments being for drinking or drug use is not valid.
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Just spoke to my friend and as the memories were hazy he filled me in. The perpetrator’s father was the “Supreme Leader” of the national chapter. And a big name lawyer. The kid(who was also a big time dealer/user) was arrested and booked and out the next day. He continued to live in the house while my friend was blackballed. He says it was the worst time of his life and that some of the members are in a group chat where they still talk s*** about him. 
I was also friends with other people in that fraternity as my ex husband was the president the year following this incident and I am shocked at the people that went along with the blackballing. My ex remained good friends with him after the incident (but I was the one that got to keep him in the divorce
), but many people I saw as good/safe people who protected women did not. Some of them have daughters now and I really wonder how they feel about their actions
I’m pretty sure I knew none of this until years later. I certainly do t remember it coming up when our sorority did parties with them. There was no action taken by the university.
Just looked up the perpetrator and he’s an ER doctor in PA. I do remember some talk about worry if he would get into med school.
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Power and connections, again… justice is different for them.
I am willing to bet that if Jane Doe’s parents were big donors to Cornell this case would have proceeded quite differently.
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A lot of the values that are being complained about (treating women well), and values about alcohol, are best taught at home in early childhood. If you want kids to be moderate about alcohol, you should not have it and not serve it at home. This will reduce the likelihood of them abusing it.
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The theory was an attempt to understand what Cornell could have charged the students with if, per the DA, the sexual conduct wasn’t criminal. Also, why and how did the punishment vary. And why were the punishments so puny?
We now know one of them was charged by Cornell with “attempted sexual exploitation”, which is a specific offense different from “sexual assault” and “rape”.
For many kids, the forbidden fruit is sweeter. Not having alcohol in the home isn’t a slam dunk. In fact one of the guys I was at college with who was known for getting blind drunk going out grew up in a strict Muslim family where there was no alcohol. (He also bought ham sandwiches at the cafeteria.) Modeling good behavior with alcohol - for example, only social drinking, not seeing parents getting drunk, understanding what moderation is - may be a better role model. The opposite effect can also happen. My best friend from college’s parents were both alcoholics. She would have a drink when we went out or went to parties, but only ever in moderation because she did not want to end up like them, and same with both her sisters.
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Actually, the charge was not “attempted”, but the finding was reduced to that because of the circumstances I mentioned above. This is part of the basis for his appeal.
Well, that’s part of what everyone is wanting to know.
I think there might also be an addiction gene.
So are you saying, all 7 charged/named didn’t have sex with her?
That was my point yesterday - about what was on the boards. It is disturbing - but the boards are not sexual abuse. What they are inferring to do is - but I’m trying to understand, are you saying he didn’t physically assault her?
To me, this would go down to - if you are a bystander and don’t report, are you guilty?
States have odd laws.
Cornell will have their own rules - whether he should have been expelled or not is up to them, based on their rules of the behavior.
Many would believe, if he did not physically assault her, that being expelled was too grave a punishment.
I’m not saying I believe that. I believe Cornell has rules and they should act upon what their rules say.
And again, I’m not an attorney, but I don’t think in most situations elsewhere, that the punishment would be as extreme.
But this goes back to what I’ve said - none of us were there or truly know what happened. And many people have presumed guilt without having all the facts.
That’s why we have a grand jury, jury, and court system.
If this person did not physically assault her, you will have a big contingent saying Cornell acted unfairly in this matter. And no, before you attack me, I’m not saying they did - but many no doubt will - both male and female.
Okay. But it is still not “sexual assault” or”rape”. Not sure what you are trying to argue?
My understanding of this offense is that it’s related to digital transmission - the chat participation.
I found this helpful: Sexual Assault, Harassment, and Exploitation | Confidential Support & Advocacy Services | Elon University
I’m not saying that at all. John Doe’s case only relates to his outcome. The findings for the others and their individual punishments are redacted in the record for privacy reasons, as is the identity of the John Doe.
And he wasn’t. We don’t know what the ones who were expelled , were found guilty of.
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For THIS one of the seven, yes. I don’t know why you even think I’m arguing anything with you.
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OK - I misinterpreted.
I don’t know if we’ll ever truly know but I hope the process is done fairly, vs. we f’d up, so we need to just get a guilty…not matter what. If they’re guilty, then yes, their lives should be wrecked and their penalty should start with a long imprisonment.
At this time point we do not know the detailed facts which would be important for any prosecution.
About 10 years ago, there was a mattress girl at Columbia claiming being raped. After investigation, the police did not press charge. Later the guy sued Columbia for inadequate protection and settled the lawsuit eventually.
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We do know that the campus police failed to give the victim’s complete statement to authorities, and that the DA never even interviewed Jane Doe. We know the university didn’t give Jane Doe the findings of the investigation. The justice system did not work in this case and the only reason we are here now is because the civil suit put the spotlight back on the case. The legal system should have worked properly two years ago!
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The recent lawsuit includes ~10 charges against ~18 different individuals or organizations, with ~60 different combinations of charges x individual/organization. All 7 students were charged with both sexual assault and sexual battery, including the students who did not have sex with the defendant. This relates to how the charges are defined. For example, unwanted touching of body to snort drugs off is included as sexual battery in lawsuit. Note that these charges are disputed by some of the defendants. For example, one claims he did not snort drugs and has testing showing no drugs in system (not conclusive method).
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