Sorry - missed that. Thanks
I’ve never watched the show but they seem good at getting “accurate” info - not sure how.
Not saying this, per se is, but in general. They get sourced a lot.
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Correct. 
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I’m not sure I can really agree with this. It sounds like there is a misunderstanding about lack of awareness of/ inability to tell right and wrong vs an amnestic episode. Maybe they are not aware that what they are doing is wrong, but they are aware of what they are doing. However, it’s hard to fathom whether a person in a psychotic state would have some reason to believe that sexually assaulting a female is ok. I’ve heard of plenty of command hallucinations, but not any that tell someone to sexually assault a female or that she “wants it“ or anything like that. @Bill_Marsh have you?
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I know this thread moves fast, so I missed it… How did this turn into a conversation about psychiatry?
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It’s my fault. I began by trying to summarize (and question) how, even though the whole world seemingly is taught the Golden Rule, people continue to commit violent crime.
Nope.
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Good lord, I am glad I do not have a daughter and we do not need to have some conversation.
In the mean times, need to talk to my boys. But they will become adults soon, living their own lives.
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With that kind of publicity, you’re going to have more business than you can handle. Better clone yourself. 
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I appreciate all the “ talk to your boys” advice going around. Obviously it’s necessary, but also terrible that people have to tell young men that it isn’t ok to have sex with someone who is drunk and or high? It’s not ok to invite others to “free p**sy” or say “ is the shop still open”. And why do I feel like those who are having this little talk are warning their good boys off from “bad girls” like Jane Doe? Just seems like more victim blaming.
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People will impart whatever values they want to impart to their kids. As long as those values are not asking the kid to do something bad to another person, it is none of anyone’s business what values people give their kids. Everything is not victim blaming.
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It’s a very short step from “she’s a bad girl” to “she must have been asking for it”.
As we have seen.
Someone above mentioned they would be ashamed of their daughter if they found out she had been in a threesome. I would be completely ashamed to have brought up a child who could post things like “free ….” and “shop still open?” - to anyone much less on a group chat.
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If you feel that people with values are the ones that are creating all these issues, you have things backwards.
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Well, I disagree. It’s not about values when young men have to be told that’s it’s wrong to have sex with an incoherent partner. And not going to apologize for being disgusted by this popular standpoint that frames the young women as somehow responsible. The manosphere is real and thriving.
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I hope my boys wont be one of those, which I will be shamed of.
But if there is no new evidence indicating otherwise, I think if I am a juror and my verdict will be out.
Most men accused seem to be high too, one even being sleeping/unconcious.
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One can be shamed at both sides.
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Young men (or women) raised properly wouldn’t need to be told. Values are beyond sex. One properly raised wouldn’t do a gamut of things - sexually or otherwise that aren’t talked about descriptively by parents. I never had the chat with my son about not taking advantage of an incoherent person. Nor have I or my better half with my daughter about doing the same. I wouldn’t need to if his overall framework has been properly established.
These were clearly kids that think differently - both guys and girl, btw, because everyone’s view of sex isn’t the same.
But many of you continue to blame these boys.
We also don’t know that to be true.
It may be but very well may not be.
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I am free to say that I am disgusted by the woman even as I am disgusted by the men’. You can’t mandate some random morality on everyone else.
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We expected the same behavior from both our son and daughter in terms of how they treated the opposite sex.
Don’t understand this at all. Someone who is small built as Jane Doe supposedly is and takes 10 drinks shows poor judgment and is putting themselves in danger (including many things unrelated to men, such as alcohol poisoning, traffic accidents, and at a place like Cornell, getting lost in dark areas and the gorges).
She’s a train wreck. Doesn’t mean she deserved anything that happened. But damn right I would advise both my children to avoid being close to people like that, whether men or women.
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Viewing sexual assault as a public health problem, I ask: which is lower hanging fruit? Changing the ingrained misogyny of tens of millions of people so that they raise kinder and wiser sons who will be college-age in 20 years? Or shifting the decisions young people make around substance abuse risk? Even the latter fruit isn’t hanging very low – even that fruit is probably a multi-decade project comparable to the seat belt or anti-smoking movements if we want to see those +50% drops in harm. But the biggest reason I harp on substance abuse as a risk factor for involvement in SA (in any role) is that any individual can use this information to make themselves safer right now at minimal cost.
Anyone who wants to dispatch an army of rabbis to teach young men the values of kindness and unselfishness, or whatever approach you see as the right societal intervention, you have my full support. I sure don’t know how we move the needle on that.
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Is it wrong to rape/SA someone who is sober and exercising good judgment, and should the perpetrator be arrested and subjected to criminal charges and proceedings? Yes.
Is it wrong to rape/SA someone who is under the influence of alcohol/drugs and perhaps exercising poor judgment, and put that perp through the same judicial process? Also Yes.
However, not being drunk/high might help many would-be victims avoid situations and actions that are more likely to lead to rape/SA, especially when the environment is alcohol- or drug-saturated.
So while a rapist is always culpable regardless of the victim’s disposition, having their wits about them (in most situations, I figure) makes a person more able to avoid them – they either avoid the situation altogether, or are able to see warning signs in perps’ behavior and exit the premises before an attack can occur.
If I were a college kid these days, I would only party hard with those I knew well and trusted. If I went to a party at another house, I would make sure at least one friend attended alongside me, and I would not get drunk/high. You can have a good time without getting hammered.
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