Neither of my kids drank at college, mainly due to the fact that we raised them to understand the genetic link to alcoholism in our extended families (plus some luck, of course). Just the same, I talked with both my D and S about the dangers of SA and about consent. Both had already had these discussions in their friend groups while still in high school. It’s so important to be honest about the world that our kids will encounter and prepare them to handle what may come their way.
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There are thousands of texts. One can selectively post specific texts within those thousands that support a variety of different narratives. Over the course of the days/weeks, Doe’s wording changes from implying/stating it was consensual to implying/stating the bulk was non-consensual. This may relate to discussing the events with other persons and evaluating from a different perspective, learning more details about what happened in her memory gaps and group chat message, or being upset about changing attitudes from some of the accused / frat + having “reputation destroyed” among other students on campus. It’s also clear that a variety of the texts (from all parties) are disingenuous or have ulterior motives. I would not take every isolated text at face value and would instead look at the full context.
For example, the text you linked in which Doe texts with one of the accused about snorting ketamine being the most insane / jaw dropping moment of the night was on the day after the event, with Doe seemingly not upset in the text. In an exchange that was not posted, she also talks about loving the 2 men from the first threesome and being interested in getting together with them again.
However, if you scroll down to the next text on the page you linked from 2 weeks later, Doe says, “let’s be clear 90% of what happened that night was non-consensual.” Newell replies sending a supportive series of texts in which he describes not being aware of how it got of hand with more people coming in the room than just the 2 from the first threesome, even though he was the one that sent the group text encouraging people to come in the room.
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Yes. You can add that not being drunk/high helps many would-be accused avoid committing SA or entering a gray area where they’re at risk of being accused. Staying sober-ish is safer for everyone in every way.
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Yes – that’s a potentially helpful lesson for would-be perpetrators, too.
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I don’t disagree with you, if we are talking ONLY about campus/college kids.
But this is hardly a risk mitigation strategy for the rest of the population-- as I keep mentioning, children, young teenagers, any female child with a step-father in the home (apparently a huge risk factor for SA), anyone in a long term care facility, etc.
Your advice- again, while well taken-- seems to gloss over the fact that our society is harboring LOTS and lots and lots of men who take advantage of humans who are weaker or less able to fight back/report them. So in some ways- are we enabling the men who do horrible things to females of all ages by focusing all of our “don’t engage in risky behavior” chips on the four years or so that someone is in college? What about the military- and the really awful stories that have come out lately?
I think one of the reasons that the tobacco campaigns ultimately were successful- not 100%, but certainly fewer heavy smokers now than in the past- was that there was a message relevant to everyone. Pregnant women shouldn’t smoke. OK- but I’m not pregnant. But someone with a small child in the home shouldn’t smoke. OK- but I live alone. The lifespan of someone who is a heavy smoker is greatly reduced- lung cancer. OK- but I don’t smoke, I chew. Oral cancers. Etc.
What is the message behind “Don’t be a disgusting pig and take advantage of another human being” that would resonate with a grown man who purchases videos of men abusing children and then acts that out? With his own step-daughters???
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Explain the growing legion of female teachers and bosses taking advantge of younger men and women.
Glad you are not just focusing on avoiding the women. Sounds like everyone involved in this had bad judgment, also bearing in mind the ketamine arrest at the frat house the day before. Which takes us back to the earlier discussion about whether to avoid Greek life,or at least certain houses, in general.
I think it was the Sanday book that pointed out that when men have been drinking, the resulting impaired judgement also leads them to discount the potential negative long-term consequences of what they are doing (aligned with the first point you’re making here).
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Can we please be consistent with the use of “females/males” and “women/men”? TBH it’s weird to refer to “females and men.” You can call them women.
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To be careful, I don’t know what the gender identities of all these people are. I am not sure we can bucket them into these two narrow buckets of men and women.
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Agreed, if the approach is to change the minds and hearts of youth on drinking. But what prevents a single person (university president) from issuing a campus edict to be drug and alcohol-free with a zero tolerance policy? Admittedly, that probably wouldn’t realize the full 50% drop, but it has shown to significantly improve outcomes, and push some debauchery away from campus in order to give those on campus a safe space.
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I’m not disagreeing with you, but what are the examples you’re relying on? Which universities have adopted zero tolerance? Does that mean students are expelled if they are caught with alcohol?
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The leaks are certainly from the defense, or someone sympathetic to the defense. Now, Jane Doe’s attorney is countering by talking to TMZ. [1]
“…It is undisputed that the Hearing Panel found that Mr. Newell violated Ms. Doe’s bodily safety in commencing intercourse without her consent."
Another thing to consider is the impact of peer pressure, especially on college students. Yes I will be taking this to a psychology conversation again, but it’s important to recognize that even though many of us think “I raised my child better than that and they would never do such a thing“, the effects of peer pressure and the desire to fit in can affect decision-making, even in the most “well brought up” individuals. There is a boatload of research on peer pressure and many environments, but since we are talking about fraternities and college age, I will link one. Keep in mind they also apparently overestimate what is considered “the norm” in terms of how much students drink in college, so their baseline expectation of how much to drink can also be skewed. Understanding Peer Pressure in College | The Jed Foundation
And about alcohol use:
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It’ll all come out in court. So will Snapchats. Lots of people assume that Snapchats forever disappear after, like, 24 hr, but law enforcement can subpoena the Snapchat corporation to pony up the prior message from their backup data. That’s been done many times before in the pursuit of various types of crimes.
This article is a little older but I doubt much has changed. Obviously college kids drink regardless of whether they are in a frat, but the peer pressure involved in frats seems to take it to another level.
Many fraternity brothers and alumni maintain that fraternities shouldn’t be blamed for excessive drinking — that it is just a part of college life — but the numbers tell a different story.
Study after study has shown that fraternity men are the heaviest drinkers on campus. According to Harvard public-health research, considered the most definitive, 86 percent of men living in chapter houses binge on alcohol, twice the level of those who live elsewhere. A University of Maine survey found that three-quarters of fraternity members report they’ve been hazed, including being forced to drink into unconsciousness.
In the 1990s and 2000, Phi Delta Theta — the same fraternity as in the L.S.U. case — lost three members to alcohol. One died in an initiation ritual, another while driving drunk on a motorcycle. A third died during a house fire; he was so drunk that he didn’t flee. The fraternity banned alcohol at its chapter houses, and since 2000, injuries and sexual assaults have become much less common. Insurance claims plunged 90 percent.
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This is the study, for which I can only access the abstract and a few details AI tells me about it: [1]
(emphasis added)
This article explores the relationships between institutional features of small college and university campuses and the levels of reported sexual assault. Using the mandated reporting of crime on campus through the Clery Act, we look at the combined levels of reported sexual assault for the years 2012 and 2013 at the main campuses of all accredited non-profit, four-year, residential, undergraduate colleges and universities in the United States that have a student body size of 2,000–2,999 students, N = 198. We find that the presence of a Greek life system, alcohol policy, religious affiliation, and the proportion of male students all influence the levels of reported sexual assault at colleges and universities, with alcohol policy being the strongest influence.
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I will try and do better with my consistency. I don’t see how being critical of my discrimination toward males (by referring to them as men) adds value to the topic.
I often write from my phone and I miss a lot of grammatical things - but I will try and do better.
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This is why women don’t report SA. It’s actually worse than it was when I was in school, because there is a more widespread audience for this sort of commentary.
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I read yesterday and thought I missed something because she said that - actually it’s not in your article - but she told Olivia Rodrigo to “shut up” in her support.
I didn’t post thinking, maybe I missed something and I’d get attacked.
Honestly, I didn’t know she had a platform anymore - but I know she has a Sirius channel. Do people listen?
Once she left Fox News, her career crashed.
I didn’t read the “why” she would say these things. Maybe there’s logic or reason - I didn’t read enough to know what she said. I’m interested in neither Megyn Kelly’s thoughts or Olivia Rodrigo - although I knew her concert tix are like $500+.
Megyn Kelly tells Olivia Rodrigo to ‘shut up’ for supporting Cornell’s Jane Doe
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Why? Kelly has a long documented history of being a horrible human being. She’s a misogynist.
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