<p>fishymom,
Good for you for insisting that you could not change your plans. Getting out of jury duty is not easy if you do not have a legitimate excuse. At least it is not so easy where I live.</p>
<p>I am a close and dutiful D and DIL to four frail elderly, 3 of whom reached the high 80/s, early 90’s. All are stong-minded. I have a good imagination for the squeeze-play you feel right now.</p>
<p>But from what you’re describing, it really does sound to me (as some others have suggested above, too) that your FIL is showing some of the first, classic signs of short-term memory loss. That could indicate either Dementia or Alzheimers (two somewhat different illnesses).The whole paranoia about people coming after one’s money, and possibly mis-remembering, mis-characterizing, conflating or manufacturing your son’s phonecalls might be a first tangible sign his mind is slipping. He can be “completely with it” one moment and sound like himself to analyze some complex situation, but lose his grasp of a short-term situation. It is very gappy. You might find your H and BIL are the last to admit there might be something seriously wrong with their Dad. I spent many years trying to be the change agent regarding my own Mom’s care. It is very, very hard to make changes within a family among all the adults involved, especially when one (your SIL) has already checked out.</p>
<p>In your title, you asked each of us what would “we” DO, so I’m taking that as license to say exactly what I would do (as compared to just sympathizing with you, which I feel very deeply for you.)</p>
<p><em>I</em> would confront my own H that there appear to be cognitive changes beginning to manifest themselves. The example with your S is just one example. In order to address the FIL’s needs, it is time for the family doctor to initiate whatever diagnostic tools<br>
s/he has (ours ran a simple cognition test in his office, during a visit), to advise the two sons what is optimal care for the Dad. At that point, you can indicate that the “DOCTOR” RECOMMENDS certain changes occur. Those might include that he not drive; “begin” a relationship with hired help twice weekly (as it will only need to increase in coming years, so start now to find someone and build some trust now). </p>
<p>Another approach is to have the dad seen by a doctor specializing in Geriatric care, if the family doctor isn’t willing or interested in advising the family on management of the elder.</p>
<p>I know, looking back on 4 eldercare situations (two are still living), that every time there was some meaningful change in care, it was preceded by a group of small behavioral challenges such as those you describe. Among the adult children and children-in-law, some were ready to accept the evidence of decline, others stayed in denial longer, and others checked out long before.</p>
<p>The most helpful thing ever said was by one of my SIL’s (who happens to be a nurse, but is a golden hearted person), when there was tension among the brothers and SIL’s. She said, “When they are all gone, we’ll be the ones left so we’d better treat each other right as we figure out how to care for the elder.”</p>
<p>I would be asking your H to create a better team with the 4 of you; bring his brother back into the situation by regular communication; and even see if there’s some role the other SIL can play that she can handle so she, t00, participates in some way. She might agree to just send him a card once weekly, since there’s no return communication required.</p>
<p>There is no reason why you should have to be the lead (and perhaps sole) person on this team of 4. All should be communicating about what’s changing in the FIL’s behavior, and the two brothers need to come up with a plan to have him assessed medically. He is over 90 years old! He will fight you all til the end, so you need each other as a team. When he finally passes, you’ll be able to embrace each other and say, “He was tough; sometimes impossible; but we all did the best we could with it.”</p>
<p>Just a suggestion:
Use the Caller ID to show FIL that the scam call was not grandson’s phone.</p>
<p>Cross posted with paying3.
Paying 3, wonderfully said!</p>
<p>My experience/advice would be much the same as paying3tuitions.</p>
<p>Giving over financial control is its own sticky ball of wax. We did that by having my brother take over the big items first, but leave our Mom with the ability to pay her own utility bills. And somehow he managed to put a cap on how much she could withdraw at one time (a thousand, I think), which is the most our family could bear seeing her lose to some huckster. She never did, but at least her money wasn’t all open-for-grabs. Brother invested and managed her savings accounts, and showed her the fructification therefrom, just so she’d not be upset she didn’t control it any more. And he repeated the same info, a thousand times.</p>
<p>That was in place for a few years, and only when she began to slip up on some of the utility bills did my brother take charge of the accounts in their entirety.</p>
<p>My FIL operates on an allowance of some hundreds in cash in his pocket, administered by his son. It’s just like giving a teenager allowance. </p>
<p>The sea change is when your H and his brother realize they have to parent their parent. At the moment, they are leaving all the practicalities to you. So take charge! You know more about FIL’s behavior than anyone else, at this moment. Get your H onboard first, and encourage H to bring in his brother more closely.</p>
<p>To all those respectful sons and daughters reluctant to do what they know needs to be done with their “slipping” parent’s finances, I’d say this:</p>
<p>My Dad didn’t believe in sharing information about his finances. As a result, it took sixteen years to close his Estate.</p>
<p>^^We learned that lesson. This time we handled it differently by having financial and medical power of attorney drawn up before it was too late. Still, there are issues that are even more difficult to tackle and we continue to trudge through them. Live and learn.</p>
<p>I don’t really have a good answer on how to deal with this. I do know from experience that it is sometimes very hard to tell if someone is losing their faculties. My dad goes in and out. Some days he recognizes my mother, some days he doesn’t have a clue who she is. It can vary by hours or by day. And sometimes, he gets very rude with healthcare workers, which he would NEVER have done in his younger days.</p>
<p>That being said…I would just encourage anyone that is in a position to take care of elderly relatives to remember that one day, YOU may be the one in this position. When you are, you may not be very nice to your caregivers either.</p>
<p>When my elder needed a caregiver, I was very polite but reminder her that I wanted to be her DAUGHTER not her caregiver. When put that way, she was willing to hire someone.</p>
<p>And my elder was VERY nice to those paid caregivers but not so nice to ME. We were told that very often the people who were the closest get the brunt of the not so nice treatment. The person with changing cognitive issues knows there is something different going on and tends to lash out at the closest person.</p>
<p>I have to say paying3 seems to written an excellent email, with lots of good information.</p>
<p>It doesn’t sound like FIL is mentally stable, or has all his faculties. This can be hard to determine. At dinner on the 4th of July my MIL told a very entertaining tale of a trip to France she took with my FIL “a year or so ago”. Only problem–she’s never been to France. FIL passed about 16 years ago. We all just smile and nodd (including my 86 yr old dad, who was a bit confused at first). This sort of thing has been going on for years…it was one of the reasons several of us insisted on a medical review for MIL. In fact, she has Alzheimers, and was addicted to some perscription medication. It took a long time to get my DH and SIL on board with the idea that something more than “cranky day” and old age was happening.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t change jury duty, the elective procedure is either scheduled when you can help out, or someone else deals with it…but I would schedule a more through medical review as Paying3 suggests. After jury duty. And then everyone needs to get on board with future caregiving. Maybe you drive, but someone else deals with other aspects of the situation. And Caller ID is a good thing.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I wonder why this happens, do you know? I think there is usually a logical explanation for most human behavior (teenagers treat thier parents badly because they are in the process of breaking away from their dependence, for example). Perhaps it is nature’s way of preparing family for the loss of their elders. Maybe it softens the blow and makes us not miss them quite as much if they have treated us poorly in the final months or years.</p>
<p>^^ I think it’s because they know we will love them unconditionally. I don’t think I can ever stop loving or caring about my parents nor my children even they mistreated, disrespected us. I may be very upset and angry…but will always respond if urgent help is needed.</p>
<p>Once my mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s it was too late to make a lot of easy changes to her accounts. I had to become her guardian instead of simply having a POA and joint account. We were unable to change the beneficiaries on her insurance accounts and had to go to court for permission to sell her car, house, etc as she moved into a nursing home. Working on finances now is a great idea. I now have to send documentation annually to the courts to show that I am advocating for her from a fiduciary responsibility, etc and submit her bank statements, etc for review. It can be a real hassle, so I recommend that your family get this part of your FIL life in order.</p>
<p>I also recemmend getting a helper.</p>
<p>What if the elder is not willing to cooperate? What may be worse is his/her S/D/SIL/DIL could not agree on what to do due to various reasons. It could be a can of worms and it could become a very messy matter that will make everybody suffer if all involved parties, for example, do not trust each other (esp. when there is some inheritance issue involved.)</p>
<p>ITA about getting financial affairs in order. For some reason, last summer I got it in my head to get my mom to write down everything finance related – CDs, IRAs, military retirement, etc. It prompted a lot of great discussion and has made things sooo much easier since my dad’s health started declining in February. A year ago, they saw the beauty in streamling their business and started cashing things in when they came due and putting that money in their savings. I got myself on their big savings account so that I’d have access to it if something happened to my mom (she handles all the finances, and if she were to go first my dad would be beyond clueless). My brother, the oldest, has POA and medical POA (after the other spouse), thanks in part to my push to start paying some attention to this.</p>
<p>I encourage you to call a family meeting and start looking hard at this stuff. The one thing that has most surprised me is how my brother has stepped up. I won’t bore you with our family dysfunction, but I never thought things would go as smoothly as they have – and with my brother at the helm. Maybe your dh and BIL will step up as well. Really, they may surprise you, and you’ll never know if you don’t try. Part of my brother stepping up had to do with me setting a boundary that forced him to call on my sister (they live 10 minutes from my parents; I’m three hours away). I told him that I could come down and help but wouldn’t if he did not ask my sister to step up first. Her adult kids live with her and her dh (and that “d” isn’t for dear), and there was no reason for me to drive three+ hours when people five minutes away weren’t lifting a hand. It was difficult for me to put pressure on my brother like that, and it was hard for him to ask her for help, but it was the best thing that could have happened. I now feel like we’re working as a unit.</p>
<p>There is some really fantastic advice on here. I feel horrified and frustrated listening to your situation. Grateful I haven’t had to deal with this kind of thing, but fearful that one day I might. I’ll definitely reread this thread before the time comes.</p>
<p>I kind of understand what is going on here (my grandfather has done some similar things).</p>
<p>I think it would be best at this point to get his doctor in on it, take away his ability to drive and perhaps even consider having him go into a home.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I know any number of people in their late 80s and 90s who aren’t like this in the slightest. They are still the wonderful, caring, involved individuals they always were. Including my 89-yr-old mother.</p>
<p>There is hope!</p>
<p>fishymom, of course everyone knows he WAS taken in by the scam, but presenting him with the info and congratulating him on not being taken in was intended as a way to enable him to back off and salvage his pride. Unfortunately, it does sound as if he is further gone than you thought.</p>
<p>I am appalled by the things he said to you about your father. He is so horrible that he’s like a fictional character. It is hard to believe that any real person would say such a thing.</p>
<p>Mcat2 -“What if the elder is not willing to cooperate? What may be worse is his/her S/D/SIL/DIL could not agree on what to do due to various reasons. It could be a can of worms and it could become a very messy matter that will make everybody suffer if all involved parties, for example, do not trust each other (esp. when there is some inheritance issue involved.)”</p>
<p>More likely than not he will not be willing to cooperate…initially anyway. If any of us could put ourselves in the shoes of an elderly person, especially one whom likely suffers from dementia, I think we would likely find giving up our independence would not be easy. It takes time, persistence, patience, and will likely require working together with a medical professional and as a family to bring him on board. We’ve been down this road a few times already in our house and are smack dab in the middle of it again and see another one coming on the horizon also. For us, it took the help of a medical professional to make any progress at all…and the threat of bringing in adult protective services…all to achieve compliance with meds and some other safety issues. For what it’s worth, I think you would be wise to speak frankly with your husband first and then together you could seek the help of medical professionals. Medication, driving, guns in the home, cooking, and finances are all serious issues for those with dementia and could have life threatening or life altering consequences. Will it be easy?..no, probably not. Are there likely to be difficult and even trust issues you’ll encounter with other family members?..absolutely. My best advice is to talk with your husband, seek help from professionals, and if need be talk with other family members and perhaps divide up some of the responsibilities if necessary/possible. With our aging population increasing, many more will soon find themselves in this type of situation. Unfortunately, the sailing isn’t always going to be smooth.</p>
<p>The take home lesson I learned after dealing with my parent as an elder…I will set up the POA and deal with estate planning with my kids and husband while I’m with the program, so they don’t have to do so when I’m not!</p>