Recovery and 12 step thread.

Major addiction issues in my family . . . my dad was addicted to alcohol, my sister to meth, and my dear young adult niece now addicted to heroin. They were/are intelligent, lively, beautiful people when not under the influence. It is tragic.

I am emphatically not a TV person. However, for me, watching Dr. Drew’s Celebrity Rehab show (on the advice of a friend) was extremely helpful when I was coming to terms with my sister and niece’s addictions years ago. Seeing person after person present with variations on the theme helped me move away from a version of the “terminal uniqueness” @privatebanker mentioned. I had the extremely inaccurate idea that no other families had this level of problems, dealt with this level of seemingly self-induced hardship, etc. Getting out of that mindset was very helpful to be and led to me reaching out, being open, and getting support for myself.

Comorbid mental health issues are often in the mix, as well, and can greatly complicate treatment.

I recently completed my MSW degree. For an alcoholism and addiction class, I visited two 12-step meetings. I was fascinated by the atheist-agnostic AA meeting I attended, since I am a nonbeliever myself. A true fellowship.

@oldmom4896 yes congrats on the recent achievement! Way to go.

Common misconception is the higher power concept in 12 step programs.

AA is not a religious program. Its oppositional to it in many ways.
It’s spiritual program. One that helps you rejoin the community of life. A Higher power can be a light bulb or the ocean if you like. As long as you no longer view yourself as the center of it all. The disease is just one example of self will run riot. Mindfulness is key. But also feeling part of bigger universal picture than being completely alone is in a word, comforting. No eternal promises whatsoever.

But scientifically for me at least, we are all stardust and will remain so.

As a MSW. The text of AA or at least Dr William Silkworth’s opinion in the front should be required reading. It’s timeless.

And thank you for joining a profession geared towards helping others. That is totally consistent with the AA process.

Happy Founders Day - Alcoholics Anonymous !

84 years ago today, Bill Wilson of Dorset, VT met fellow alcoholic Dr William Smith, Akron, Ohio.

The rest is history and millions of lives changed for the better.

We have a cousin who has made AA the center of his life. He is a very active member who spends most of his free time working with the organization and those belonging to it. My hat goes off to him and those like him. They are contributing much to society and others in a great way.

Hi, I want to give an update on my niece, and I also have a question. Not good. She is in the medical hospital with a blood alcohol level close to .400. I don’t know how she is still alive. I think her liver must not be functioning, even though her labs are in the normal range. I say this because it’s been at lease two days since she drank (yes, we are sure), and obviously her body is not metabolizing the alcohol. I’m confused how her liver panel came back normal. Does anyone know how this could be?

She is conscious though feeling terrible and unable to stand. The worst part is, her brain is so sick she doesn’t understand that this disease is literally killing her.

Overview of ALT and AST Liver Enzymes
By Charles Daniel
Medically reviewed by Richard N. Fogoros, MD
Updated November 08, 2018

Highlights

“Any elevation in an enzyme level may be a sign of a liver problem, and aspartate aminotransferase (AST) and alanine aminotransferase (ALT) are two of the enzymes central to such an investigation.

When used comparatively, AST and ALT can help identify liver toxicity, liver disease, or liver damage.

Roles of AST and ALT

Aspartate aminotransferase (AST) is found in a variety of tissues, including the liver, brain, pancreas, heart, kidneys, lungs, and skeletal muscles. If any of these tissues are damaged, AST will be released into the bloodstream. While increased

AST levels are indicative of a tissue injury, it is not specific to the liver per se.

By contrast, alanine aminotransferase (ALT) is found primarily in the liver.

——Any elevation of the ALT is a direct indication of a liver injury, whether minor or severe. ——

Sustained increases are more problematic as they suggest an underlying disease and a greater likelihood of liver damage.

Normal Lab Values
AST and ALT are measured in international units per liter (IU/L). The normal levels vary based on a person’s body mass index (BMI) as well as the individual lab’s reference value.

Generally speaking, the normal reference value for adults is:

AST: 8 to 48 IU/L
ALT: 7 to 55 IU/L

The high end of the reference range is referred to as the upper limit of normal (ULN).

Mild elevations are generally considered to be two to three times the ULN. With some liver diseases, the level can exceed 50 times the ULN. Levels this high are described as deranged.

AST/ALT Ratio

While it may seem that a high ALT is all that is needed to diagnose liver disease, its relationship to AST can provide valuable clues as to what exactly is going on and whether the issue is acute (occurring suddenly and progressing rapidly) or chronic (long-standing or persistent).

If the liver sustains an acute injury, you can expect to see a sudden spike in the ALT.

On the other hand, if a liver disease is slowly progressing, the damage incurred by the liver will gradually affect other organs as well. As these organs are damaged, the AST will begin to rise.

This enzyme relationship can be described diagnostically with the AST/ALT ratio. This is a calculation that compares the levels of AST and ALT in your blood. Depending on which value is elevated and the extent of that elevation, doctors can often get a pretty strong indication as to what disease is involved.

What the AST/ALT Ratio Reveals

An AST/ALT ratio higher than one (where the AST is higher than ALT) is suggestive of cirrhosis.

An AST/ALT ratio higher than 2:1 (where the AST is more than twice as high as the ALT) is suggestive of alcoholic liver disease.

However, a disease cannot be diagnosed by the pattern of elevation alone. The magnitude of elevation described in multiples of the ULN also needs to be evaluated.

It is only when the magnitude is above a certain threshold that the ratio can be considered diagnostic.

Among the examples:

With alcoholic fatty liver disease, the AST would generally be more than eight times the ULN and the ALT more than five times the ULN.

With non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, the AST and ALT would both be more than four times the ULN.

With ischemic hepatopathy (also known as shock liver), the AST and ALT would be over 50 times the ULN.

A diagnosis would also be supported by other liver enzyme test results, including albumin, bilirubin, and gamma-glutamyl transpeptidase (GGT).”

Thanks @privatebanker . That is a helpful article.

Her AST and ALT are firmly both in the normal range, though the AST is approximately double the ALT. (AST 34, ALT18). I’m not sure about the ULN. Literally everything in her panel came back normal. Which is wonderful but does not explain certain things. Such as why she is still drunk and why the family has noticed a reverse tolerance.

Believe me I’m not complaining about her normal labs at all! We’re thankful she is still with us. But I’m someone who likes things to make sense. She’s also been looking very unwell.

It occurs to me that I’m focused on the labs because they are measurable, and it’s so much easier to focus on numbers than on the fact that she literally could die at any time. And beyond the loss of her, who we love deeply, her children will be given to her abusive ex husband. Who would love to take them just to spite the family. Not because he loves them.

It is so difficult to deal with issues for anyone, and is magnified for famous people. Ben Affleck had a slip and the paparazzi were all over it. His kids are still young and I feel for them. Not sure they need to see tabloid pictures about their dad.

It’s hard for all. Especially the young children. Interesting interview with Demi Moore’s children today with her most recent relapse covered in her book.

The other thing that people miss is the disease element.

Most people tend to think of it as a problem of the poor and living under bridges.

Demi and Ben certainly have material possessions and fame.

What is the common denominator?

A heavy going of life described more as a spiritual malady. One that separates one from the world and begs for relief.

Restlessness, irritability and discontent. It runs pretty deep. With a healthy dose of fear and self loathing to boot.

And then add in the chemical dependence.

Why do people relapse? It’s not the drugs or alcohol. They take that first drink stone cold sober. Knowing the consequences and simply can’t bear it.

That’s the whole thing about 12 step programs. They recognize the booze is but a symptom of an underlying problem.

“The other thing that people miss is the disease element.”

As someone who will never be addicted to drugs and alcohol I know that the physiological element is there. I won’t be addicted to these things because they don’t do for me what they do for others. More than a small amount of alcohol ( 1/2 glass) make make me very very unpleasantly tired. Any opioids cause physical discomfort including bad headaches and nausea.

And yes I consider myself very very lucky even if people think I’m anti-social because I don’t really drink.

I know many, many addicted to drugs and/or alcohol that go through much pain, misery each time they imbibe snd again at withdrawal. Yet, they persist

“I know many, many addicted to drugs and/or alcohol that go through much pain, misery each time they imbibe snd again at withdrawal. Yet, they persist”

Not sure what you mean. Why are these people imbibing if they hate how it makes them feel???

I heard something yesterday that resonated with me.

The person said that they are struggling with self harm. Emotional and physical. I think that relapse would be a form of self harm.

That’s it.

AA meetings and NA meetings are being cancelled for Coronavirus reasons. There is a site called IntheRooms that hosts all sorts of live meetings using your phone or computer like Zoom conferences.

Also I am available via DM here to help as a virtual sponsor if you need help in any way.

https://www.weconnectrecovery.com/

Is offering free on-line support meetings.