Forgive my ignorance, especially so late in the game in May. But my son as a senior just ran 4:16 in the 1600M and 1:58 in the 800M. With such a good times can he still get recruited? Also, is it worth following up with coaches from the colleges that rejected him (GPA uw 3.8, SAT 1540) to see if his better times might change a rejection into an acceptance? Thank you for any perspective and experience you might offer. Thanks.
I would be very surprised if a rejection could be changed. Coaches only get so many picks and these were used long ago.
However, this is exactly the kind of additional information that may help get off a WL. He should send a LOCI to both admissions and the coach with this info. It could help. Or not. But worth a try.
At this point, he should share his news with the coach of the school where he has deposited and ask about being on the team there, summer workouts, etc. Iām guessing he wants to run in college, and this can make that happen.
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Where is he going to attend this Fall?
What is the goal? Is he looking for scholarship money? Running D1? Getting into a higher level academic/selective school?
I also donāt think that athletics/these times could turn a denial into an acceptance. Did he have coach support anywhere? He can certainly contact those coaches and ask though.
If the goal is to run D1, I expect he could still find a team to run for but whether or not that school is a fit in terms of academics, vibe, major, financially might be difficult.
Thoughts @politeperson?
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What schools are we talking about here? I think that is extremely unlikely at the schools usually discussed on CC.
He can reach out to coaches and see if they would offer a spot for next year if he reclassifies to ā25 and explore taking a gap or PG year. Or discuss if there would be support for a transfer.
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Your sonās stats are literally identical to my sonās (except DSās SAT score was 1520). I know they helped him get into Amherst and Wash U but he was waitlisted at Rice and rejected from Dartmouth. I donāt think you can get a rejection reversed.
My son ended up with an injury and didnāt even run in college (he went to UT Austin and studied biomedical engineering before he fell ill and had to withdraw). So you never know what the future holds. Your son is bright and talented and will do well at whatever school he attends if he works hard. 
It might NOT be the best thing for him to run at a top school, you never know. A kid on DSās team, who was even faster, went to Columbia as a recruited runner. He lasted a year and was so unhappy he transferred to Bates the next year.
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It really depends on which schools you have in mind.
It is not too late at the majority of schools in the US if the coach wants you.
But āmajority of schoolsā means mostly state schools, junior colleges, and privates with relatively high admit rates.
There are great options in that pool if the fit is right.
Just be aware that while those are solid times, they might not move the needle much at programs of interest (in terms of athletic money, coach support, etc.).
I think itās unlikely rejections get reversed based on those times but again it depends on the school.
Congrats to your son and enjoy the rest of the season if he has any meets left.
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The general feedback you have been given is sound. This is an oversimplification, but there are more or less two different types of push that coaches might have to help recruited athletes get in. These correspond to the overall competitiveness of admissions. At a school that will effectively accept anyone above a certain threshold, a coach can typically pull to get an athlete who is close to their standard, and occasionally get someone who isnāt that close to their standard. At highly rejective schools, coaches give admissions a list of recruits they want to get in (usually after a pre-read), and for the most part these students wind up getting accepted. These slots are carefully doled out and accounted for precisely.
As far as I know, any school that would reject a 3.8 UW/1540 will at best give coaches a finite number of slots to use every year. (there are some schools, such as MIT, where the coach has even less say that that). A no from these places is going to be pretty permanent, and admissions will be pretty careful to follow their process.
There are a large number of schools where a coach could pull some strings to get an academically qualified student athlete in even now. Lots of places are sweating enrollment.
Most coaches are unwilling or unable to help get a recruit admitted to a restricted major such as engineering if the recruit canāt get in on their own. Even if a coach could help, why pull strings to get a student athlete into a major that might be too much work for them.
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Thank you for your helpful feedback. Our son got into a good school for Computer Science and it has a track team with an awesome coach but he wanted to study engineering which the school does not have. With his faster times we have been cautiously looking, not assuming anything so late and with us knowing very little of how this Track recruiting works. Thus far after his 4:16 1600M there hasnāt been much response from the coaches. The couple that have responded have said itās too late. We have tried not to have any assumptions. From the Fall we did not know much how to navigate contacting coaches, applying Early Decision to secure slots or interest from coaches, etc. We applied to mostly UCs and Ivys all Regular Decision thinking that his times were not good enough and maybe his grades might be (GPA uw 3,8, w 4.1, SAT 1540) but he got a C in AP Chem and most schools are so impacted and arenāt looking at SATs. We probably should have applied more to out of state schools and less high reach schools but we were not as familiar with those schools and going sub 4:20 on the 1600M seemed like the accomplishments of Track gods, even though our son had gone from 5:15 Sophomore Spring semester (his first season of ever running) to 4:34 in Junior year. And even still its hard to know how much to pursue answers from the coaches as we donāt want to bug coaches too much or come off as if we assume anything. At this point it would not surprise me if our son runs a sub 4:10 tomorrow at NCS. And then what if anything to do. I welcome any further perspective. Thanks.
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I think your son needs to think about what he is looking for. I have seen signs of wanting engineering, a more prestigious school, and a higher level of track.
Engineering programs and higher levels of track are probably there for him now, although a 4:16 wonāt carry much weight at strong track programs. If he does go sub 4:10, some new doors at highly rejective schools might open with a gap year, but those schools also care about how you saved the world in your gap year, so there are risks to that approach.
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PG years are common for these athletes. Our school has couple of track PGs each year.
Beyond Ivies your son could/should also explore schools like WashU, Tufts, JHU where he may find a balance between athletics and engineering while being an attractive recruit.
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A PG is a more straightforward path than a gap year.
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And a more expensive one. Many, but certainly not all, athletes have strong coach interest as they embark on this path. Iād want to have some conversations with coaches at the target unis about the feasibility of the plan and their expectations.
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Have you looked at any other State Universities? Many have very strong engineering programs that rank up above many higher level private colleges. And he may be able to walk onto a track program at some state universities.
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Agreed. Personally, weād only go this route if there were a secured offer for the following year. But for most athletes, a PG year is a better fit than a traditional gap year.
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Iād get through the next race and enjoy the ride.
Then think about what heās looking for.
Right now, his best chance is probably to identify schools with good but not top level track programs and with engineering programs that arenāt impacted and/or selective. (If engineering is the preference).
Hereās why:
Coaches probably canāt help much with getting him in to full engineering schools at this point (other schools/majors are easier). So that limits the pool.
4:15ish as a senior is respectable but itās not going to create much excitement at top D1 distance programs. So if you were thinking Stanford, Washington, etc., Iād just warn you that that is a different level of runner. (4:10 would be a different discussion if the 800 time dropped to 1:54).
So just off the top of my head that probably means schools like Boise State, Montana State, Idaho, Gonzaga, UPortland, Santa Clara, Colorado State, Western Washington, Utah State, CP SLO, etc.
Those are just examples to give you an idea. Some of those itāll just be too late or the engineering admit is likely a deal breaker. You can get a sense of this by looking at WUE schools that are taking OOS engineering. You can probably come up with a few dozen or more schools in this category depending on his academic preferences. Email the coaches and see if theyāre interested.
Put PRs and class in subject line of email.
(Also, itās too late at Ivies for this year)
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I got the impression that the goal is a selective school, not running. Did I misread?
If you are at all considering a PG/gap year to take another shot in the fall at Ivies or other selective schools with coach support, you are behind schedule for that also. The 2025 recruits at those schools will be going through pre-reads this summer with offers coming in the fall.
Yes but not necessarily too late for the slower Ivys and selective D3s (which donāt finalize their offers until late summer/early fall. From what I have seen @politeperson state, menās running recruits on the later side.
If I were this athlete Iād get in contact with coaches ASAP.
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Iām not sure if the goal is necessarily a highly selective school or just a school where running and the right engineering program can happen. My hope was to set expectations about the types of schools where doors might now be open this year.
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Thanks for the perspective. I appreciate yours and everyoneās support. We will certainly use your information and feedback in our next steps. I wish I had found this site a year or tow earlier. But we were new to running and just trying to keep our heads above water with Covid. It has been an amazing ride, our son able to progress in ways we never dreamed possible. It has been hard for him to do further college searching with finishing senior year with in internship, AP classes, researching financial aid, running, and just having fun as a kid should. We are excite about NCS today. Thank you.
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