<p>the horror of waiting till you’re in your 30’s to have kids…</p>
<p>“it is a rare family that has the means (and the energy) to balance two full careers and a family”</p>
<p>Woah! For most of my (50-something) generation this has been the norm, not the “rare” exception. In fact as someone noted up thread it is really only a little blip in the history of homo sapiens that families with a SAHP were anything but a very rare exception.</p>
<p>I’ve really enjoyed this thread and the generosity of those posters who have told their own story, without rancor and often with self-effacing humor. For most of us there’s been both joy and some periods of struggle and or doubt about the balance (or lack thereof) we’ve struck. I think we get into trouble when we start making assertions about the worth or advisability of other choices. Who really knows about the factors that go into another woman’s choices?</p>
<p>Over the years I’ve worked FT, PT, and been a SAHM. I’ve been really fortunate in being able to rev up to the top of the ladder after years on the mommy track, and I think my kids and H are genuinely proud of what I’m doing. More importantly, they are themselves kind, thoughtful, funny and smart (messy, disorganized, worry about the wrong things, too.) I have regrets about things I wish I’d done differently as a parent, but choosing when and how much to work isn’t one of them. YMMV, and isn’t that, in the end, the point?</p>
<p>I felt that way too, morrismm, so I got an engineering degree. I worked for 5 years (hated my job) and have been a SAHM for 23 years. I always expected to go back to work at some point, but it was not financially necessary so I haven’t. I do feel very fortunate how things have worked out. I have a substantial 401k from when I was working and a substantial spousal IRA. I certainly could not give advice to my S to marry someone who works, as I am not. Perhaps I would recommend he find someone with at least some sort of post- HS education. I think I could have found something to support myself if I needed to along the way.</p>
<p>“Men have the pressure of being primary breadwinners all the time, but no one feels sorry for them over it.” </p>
<p>I certainly did. It’s one of the reasons I continued to work full-time with benefits when I could have easily switched to part time (with less job security) or possibly even SAHM. It was a godsend when DH was out of work for a year. I didn’t enjoy being the stressed primary breadwinner, but stress would have been much worse without my salary and our decent savings cushion.</p>
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<p>I also found this a very odd comment. We have more friends with two income earners than we do friends with a SAHM and our kids (from both types) have come out just find. The only one with a kid in the basement happens to be one of the SAHMs truth be told.</p>
<p>Two careers is do able depending on the sorts of careers. In my city, which when my kids were young, was filled with state and university works with some flex in their jobs, two careers worked very well for many families in my neighborhood. Commutes were small, by bike or bus, and there were plenty of parents in evidence at school events.</p>
<p>The more corporate big city model with long commutes, and more than 40 hour work week, makes those two career families unsustainable. That this is expected, should be a matter of public debate. </p>
<p>What kind of society do we want to live in? The worker voice gave the USA the weekend and many of the expected job perks we currently enjoy. As a country, we have a right to discuss and negotiate the expectations that make family life so difficult. </p>
<p>My grandfather, back when I was less than ten, lectured me on the importance of having a skill to “fall back on.” I took that to heart, and was sure to have a means of support before having kids. It has served me well.</p>
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<p>There’s a big difference between two “full careers” and two earners.</p>
<p>Just because njsue seemed to be implying that the people who have worked with me in my home have been exploited, I will be clear: yes they are immigrants. Yes they were here legally. Yes they are citizens now. And yes they will be able to collect the ss and Medicaid we pay/paid. </p>
<p>Their children also spent their day at my house with their mother and their mother attended their ECs and volunteered in their classrooms. </p>
<p>I think we all found the situation quite beneficial since I frequently found all the kids doing homework together at the dining room table when I got home. </p>
<p>That said, I spent every dime I earned on child care the first few years I worked. In the end I made a lot more, but in the start? Not so much. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t do it differently if I had it to do over again, except I would have waited five years to have kids. I was a young mother. Right out of undergrad with d1</p>
<p>Shrug, I know a lot of people with two “full careers.” </p>
<p>To the uneducated immigrant stereotype -ours wasn’t uneducated. She was a college graduate and was an elementary school teacher in her home country before coming to the US. We’ve gotten to know her whole extended family here. Her daughter and grandchildren still live in their home country, but they’ve visited here and stayed at our house for weeks on end. No exploitation here.</p>
<p>I would have waited to have kids. I was barely 24 when I was pg with oldest.
Didn’t realize just how much energy, time & money we would need.
Waited until we could have afforded help or been able to count on at least a little help from our families.
Waited to get married actually.
I don’t know if either of my kids will get married/ or have kids ( although they both have serious SO’s) but they both are in a MUCH better place than I was.
I was a high school dropout with a GED.
They both have college degrees ( or will soon) and have more skills and confidence than I had.
They have a good support system of friends and their SO’s family’s have welcomed them.</p>
<p>If I hadn’t been so uneducated/unskilled, I could have gotten a better job & H could have had a different one that didn’t suck so much of his time & energy.
But my life turned into supporting theirs, because I couldn’t build enough momentum for it to be anything else.
& even though some may feel its enough to be a "good enough"parent, a la Bruno Bettleheim, it wasn’t in my case.
I wish things had turned out differently, but I really did the best I could.
It just wasn’t enough.
Our society expects families to find their own support systems, but it’s very unequal.</p>
<p>“it is a rare family that has the means (and the energy) to balance two full careers and a family”</p>
<p>I can see the “two full careers” part (long hours, travel, etc) if we’re talking about families with young children and no extended family or close friends support-system. Yes, there are people who do swing it all alone…may take live in help or in-home daycare/nannies.</p>
<p>It’s not rare at all to have two full careers and a family around these parts. Not everyone who works long hours makes a bunch of money, and many families find that they need/want to have the income of two wage earners. They do NOT have the money for housekeepers, in home daycare, nannies, etc (really). They do not have extended families or close friends as a support system. They simply muddle through as best they can. It doesn’t matter whether or not they have the means or energy to balance things … it is what it is and they make the best of it. I would bet that this describes the vast majority of double-income families. </p>
<p>The truth is, we all muddle through, whether we have one parent at home full time or not. There is no “best” or “perfect,” and we can be the World’s Best Parent and still end up with Junior in the basement well beyond the age we thought he’d be on his own. The person who writes the book that tells us all the secret to being perfect parents who raise perfect kids is going to be very rich!</p>
<p>I can see the “two full careers” part (long hours, travel, etc) if we’re talking about families with young children and no extended family or close friends support-system. Yes, there are people who do swing it all alone…may take live in help or in-home daycare/nannies.</p>
<p>I should have added…and often takes BOTH parents committed to doing their fair share…otherwise there’s a lot of resentment…and yes, sometimes divorce. I remember reading an article about one working mom said that it took a divorce with “shared custody” to finally “make” her ex-H actually do more with/for the kids and home. While married, he left it all to her, but once he had the kids “at his place” he had to actually care for them and do some housework (laundry, etc)…and it gave her a little break.</p>
<p>For those married to someone like two of my brothers, they’re lucky. They cook, clean, do child/babycare, lawncare, fix things around the house, etc.</p>
<p>Yes. And for once that book will talk about “parents” not moms.</p>
<p>I mean it’s always about Moms. The single biggest difference is who your partner is.</p>
<p>I postponed having children, had a very serious career when S1 was born, and went right back to work after a three-month maternity leave. When DH got a great job in the suburbs, we left the city where I worked and I commuted almost two hours each way to continue my career. We had terrific live-in help whom we did not “exploit.”</p>
<p>It all worked out for the best when DH had some career reverses. I’ve always earned more than he did, but for the last 20 years or so I’ve been the primary, and for a decade virtually the only, breadwinner. </p>
<p>I consider myself fortunate that I kept working since it’s my salary that has kept us going. If we hadn’t had that, we would have really, really struggled.</p>
<p>I also think frequently of an acquaintance who was widowed when her twins were three years old. She had had a career before that but it was never as significant as what her attorney-husband had before he died. When her kids were young, she had day-care challenges, not to mention financial challenges. </p>
<p>All of this makes me very glad that I continued my career. Yes, I missed some things with my kids, but what I and my family got from my career outweighs those events.</p>
<p>Everyone is different. Everyone has different experiences. Everyone should do what’s right for themselves.</p>
<p>I can’t stay away from this thread…</p>
<p>One thing that H and I have insisted on with D (graduated last winter and working) is that she fund a 401K. She is self supporting, but is still on our cell phone plan and health insurance. The agreement is that she puts the money that she would otherwise have spent on these two items into her 401K.</p>
<p>My own 10 years as a SAHM began when I was 40. I had saved quite a nice amount in my own 401K at that time and honestly if I hadn’t I might have stayed in the work force. Also contributed to a spousal IRA when I was at home. If it is at all possible, a SAHM spouse should have her/his own nest egg just in case.</p>
<p>I follow this thread with interest, as my dissertation was on Two Career Couples. It appears little has changed in 35 years or so.</p>
<p>I’m still in touch with 2 au pairs. At the start of my career, I had to work evenings. I tried to rotate mornings off, so I could take son to Mom & Me classes, the park, etc.</p>
<p>When son started school, I moved near my parents. I rarely needed their help (sick days), but they loved having him around. Since I was single by then, they could offer sleep overs and later, watching him. The religious day school had many holidays, and they would take son and his best friend on outings. The best friend’s mom was also a working parent. I never asked a SAHM to help out, and none offered, though they were the majority.</p>
<p>The trade off was the sandwich years, when I was caring for my parents, son, and working. The positive was being my own boss, so I could set a schedule to not miss important events.</p>
<p>In my fantasy life, I would have chosen a better partner, we would be married for 30 years, have several children, traveled a lot, felt less pressure to be sole provider, be able to cut down on hours, entertained a lot; you all get the idea, and some of you live the dream.</p>
<p>The single biggest difference is who your partner is.</p>
<p>I think this is very, very true. As I mentioned above, two of my brothers are dream husbands…they make excellent salaries, they cook, they clean, do baby/childcare, will take off work when someone is sick, they drive kids to school, they fix things, they do incredible remodels themselves, etc. Their wives truly have partners who share the full “burden” of homelife.</p>
<p>I had my S when I was 23 and at grad school. I did not really take a break. In fact I had my preliminaries when he was 4 weeks old. I went back to work/school when he was 5 weeks old.</p>
<p>He was a latchkey key, and so was was his sister who was born 8 years later. </p>
<p>I would not say that I have an amazing career, but I do have a very high paying job, that is also very flexible. I can work from home if necessary, I can come late/leave early. This arrangement makes it possible for me to drive my kids to after school activities, be home in the afternoon, after-school them, etc. I sometimes think that if it was not for my kids, I would have had a better career, but then I would not have them, so it is all good.</p>
<p>I wrote on a separate thread that in the past my H and I considered a divorce. During that time I was glad that I had a high-paying job which would allow me to support my kids and I with no problems. I would not have needed child support or alimony if we did eventually get a divorce (we did not).</p>
<p>I have no regrets that I am not a SAHM. I have great relationship with my kids. And I spend a lot of time with them. In fact, my son tells me that I taught him everything he knows (not true, but nice to hear). I might not be the type of mom who packs healthy lunches or makes home cooked dinner every night, but I make it up in other areas.</p>
<p>There is no right way or wrong way, there is your own way. I would not go back back and change my way.</p>
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<p>I implied nothing about your particular employees. My apologies. My problem is with those who pay full-time domestic workers, immigrant or not, under the table for full-time work and don’t pay FICA. Yes, I think that’s exploitation.</p>