<p>I dunno. Mr. Li wants Princeton to see past his ethnicity and as an individual, so he claims. But his suit is all about discrimination against Asian-Americans. He seems very invested in this particular identity. I sense a disconnect here.</p>
<p>Cbreeze: Please capitalize the “J” in “Jews”; it is offensive not to.
Jewish students get no preferences in college admissions these days and never did – in fact, they were actively discriminated against – today they are identified as “Caucasian” on applications. And, by the way, many Jewish students play team sports.</p>
<p>“Those numbers are irrelevant.”</p>
<p>They are irrelevant because it could also mean that asians have become a better contender.</p>
<p>Here is the data from CT for the last 10 years.</p>
<p>1996/2006/gain
Verbal
Blacks/412/418/+6
Asians/497/522/+25
Hispan/435/445/+10
Whites/521/523/+2</p>
<p>Math</p>
<p>Blacks/397/404/+7
Asians/556/567/+11
Hispan/429/441/+12
Whites/517/530/+13</p>
<p>They are getting better in the objective measures. They also don’t mean much because it is only in last 10-15 years or so that more immigrant children are becoming of college age. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.state.ct.us/SDE/PressRoom/SATPressRelease2006.pdf[/url]”>http://www.state.ct.us/SDE/PressRoom/SATPressRelease2006.pdf</a></p>
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<p>Please tell me about Jewish students being discriminated in college applications. This probably occurred before I was born. Like many posters who wanted stats to prove a point, please provide that too.</p>
<p>I wish to add many Asians play soccer/lax/hockey here in the Bay Area. There were several Asian girls who were on the US Olympic soccer team.</p>
<p>Ok irrelevant is too strong a word.</p>
<p>“How are you going to prove discrimination when Asian American enrollment at Princeton has nearly doubled (from 7% to 13%) over the last 20 years?”</p>
<p>There isn’t enough information with these statistics to determine if there is discrimination. Maybe the school should be 25% Asian? 30% Asian? 10% Asian?</p>
<p>Don’t know, and those arguing that there isn’t discrimination don’t know either.</p>
<p>So let’s find out.</p>
<p>cbreeze, I have read enough of your posts to know that if you want to know about Jewish discrimination in college admissions, you have the ability to learn all you want.</p>
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<p>For one, everything is relatively speaking. Giving out just one number without providing the related data about others doesn’t mean anything. </p>
<p>Second, when you talk about the higher admission bar, you compare same period data for different groups, an increase over a period for one ethnic group doesn’t give me any clue about the whole picture. It’s a like when I say a 7-year-old boy of 5’1 high is tall, and some one jumps on me and tell me an average high for an adult american male is 5’7, so this boy is not tall…</p>
<p>Stark: “Should be”? By what criteria?</p>
<p>It almost seems like there are two separate threads here, which rarely if ever cross-reference, except to express scorn. At the risk of doing more of the same, it seems to me that one side is arguing that because high-performing Asian kids tend to have very similar “looks” to their applications - strong academics, EC’s clustered in a few areas musically and athletically - and as a result, selective schools looking to put together a varied student body will take some of those students, but reject others who are virtually indistinguishable in favor of students who may have somewhat lower “objective” academic credentials but a more eclectic group of other interests - with a result that Asians may not get admitted to those schools in true proporton to their academic “stats.” </p>
<p>The other side seems to be arguing that Asians are being discriminated against because some Asians with high stats don’t get into the selective schools that they might otherwise be expected to be accepted into based on “objective” criteria, and that the explanation that those schools are attempting to put together a varied student body is simply a ruse to put a cap on Asians. </p>
<p>Is that a fair summary? Because if it is, I don’t see how you can “find out” which answer is correct, because short of a raft of confessions of Adcoms: “I don’t care how worthy they are - I’m not going to admit another #$#^&#^% Asian kid to my school!” [not a likely scenario] the end result is going to look the same.</p>
<p>Marite:</p>
<p>Mr Li was accepted by Yale, Caltech, Rutgers and Cooper Union.</p>
<p>He was wait-listed by Princeton, Harvard, Standford and Upen</p>
<p>Here is the link:</p>
<p><a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB116321461412620634-lMyQjAxMDE2NjEzMTIxMTE0Wj.html[/url]”>http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB116321461412620634-lMyQjAxMDE2NjEzMTIxMTE0Wj.html</a></p>
<p>“Wouldn’t this be akin to believe that the sole running speed or acceleration of a soccer player makes him a great player? Oh wait, don’t tell me YOU believe that the faster players are indeed the very best players, and the slow(er) ones can only play Division III!”</p>
<p>Xiggi, you know this is one of my favorite subjects.</p>
<p>Great speed and acceleration help.</p>
<p>Are there slow players playing division 1? I just saw Cal play New Mexico in the playoffs and I didn’t see too many slow players on the field. Great game too. Very well played by both sides.</p>
<p>Thanks for the correction, amother. I had not gotten that information from the OP’s link.</p>
<p>So why is Mr. Li suing only Princeton?</p>
<p>The colleges need also to think about having a diversity of majors, something that Caltech and Union Cooper don’t have to worry about. If most of the highest stats applicants want to study economics and premed–probably the two largest majors at Ivies-- they will encounter a lot more competition than applicants interested in classics, or women’s studies, or Indian and Sanskrit studies.</p>
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<p>Should be, according to whom?</p>
<p>You can’t legitimately accuse a school of discrimination based on some hypothetical “should be”.</p>
<p>If you want to prove a discrimination case, you have to do it with the numbers as they exist. It would be very difficult to support an accusation of discrimination when the enrollment of Asian Americans has doubled at Princeton in less than one generation.</p>
<p>We might think Princeton “should be” enrolling more Asian Americans. If we think that, we are perfectly justified in applying to a different school, one that is enrolling the percentage of Asian Americans the we think they “should be” enrolling. But, that is not the same thing as statistically supporting a charge of discrimination against Princeton. I personally think that Williams is not enrolling enough non-varsity athletes. However, that personal opinion is a far cry from charging Williams with discrimination against non varsity athletes. It’s something to factor into a decision to include iWilliams on a college application list, not something to prompt a legal challenge. If Mr. Li was so sure Princeton discrimates against people of his ethnicity, why on god’s green earth did he apply there?</p>
<p>BTW, my personal opinion is that there may be a de facto “Asian quota” at some schools. But, I certainly can’t support my belief with any statistical evidence. And, I certainly can’t support a charge of discrimination when Asian American enrollment has been increasing through the roof. At many of these elite colleges, Asian Amercians are the only ethnic group that is over-represented relative to their percentage of the overall population.</p>
<p>I would love to know Mr Li’s family circumstances of immigration, employment etc. I wonder how closely his family is tied to the Chinese government.</p>
<p>“Xiggi, you know this is one of my favorite subjects.”</p>
<p>Of course, I knew that little tidbit of information and also knew you would understand the analogy.</p>
<p>Interesteddad, I’m not suing the school for discrimination. I’m not trying to prove there was discrimination. I don’t know.</p>
<p>If the public numbers paint an incomplete picture (which they do), and somebody believes he was discriminated against, why can’t he file a motion?</p>
<p>Why, with incomplete information, and everybody on this board, everybody, has incomplete information, how are some people already so sure there wasn’t discrimination.</p>
<p>“BTW, my personal opinion is that there may be a de facto “Asian quota” at some schools.”</p>
<p>That’s what my gut says too. Li thinks he and other Asians were discriminated against. Who is anybody to say, no, you have no right to find out? </p>
<p>If it turns out it can’t be proven that Li and others weren’t discriminated against, or it is proven that they weren’t, Princeton comes out smelling like a rose.</p>
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<p>That’s so ridiculous…</p>
<p>hen, maybe I should be wondering how closely this person is tied to Nazi or something ?</p>
<p>I am learning how to be brave at imagination here…</p>
<p>For your excellent post.</p>
<p>“If it turns out it can’t be proven that Li and others weren’t discriminated against, or it is proven that they weren’t, Princeton comes out smelling like a rose.”</p>
<p>Exactly. The government already made the determination that the “statistical” data --the rhetorical and entirely fabricated numbers gleaned from asianam and the Princeton study-- provided in the original complaint were not sufficient to investigate further.</p>
<p>Here’s the problem with Mr. Li’s complaint:</p>
<p>He picked an absurd target:</p>
<p>a) He can’t even demonstrate that he was a particularly strong applicant at Princeton</p>
<p>73% of Princton’s freshman class last year scored above 700 on the Verbal SAT. 74% of Princton’s freshman class last year scored above 700 on the Math SAT. </p>
<p>25% of Princton’s freshman class last year scored above 770 on the Verbal SAT. 25% of Princton’s freshman class last year scored above 790 on the Verbal SAT. </p>
<p>94% of Princeton’s freshman class was ranked in the top 10% of their high school class.</p>
<p>b) Princeton enrolls a very high percentage of Asian Amercian students by East Coast standards.</p>
<p>If he wanted make a case, he needed to target a school that gave him some statistical ammunition. A school with a relatively low percentage of Asian Americans and a school where his “stats” would make him prohibitively qualified. For example, if he had been rejected at Vanderbilt (6% Asian American) where only 41% score above 700 on verbal and 52% above 700 on math and where half the state of New Jersey doesn’t apply, then he would at least be able to make a plausible statistitical argument.</p>
<p>As it stands, he’s just another in a long line of Jersey kids with great stats who have been rejected by Princeton. Yaaawwwwn…</p>