<p>Interesteddad, hundreds of posts ago, it was mentioned that there was a study and two Princeton professors concluded that if race wasn’t a factor, the Asian population at Princeton would be much larger than it is today.</p>
<pre><code>Li cites a recent study conducted by two Princeton professors as evidence for his case. The study, published in June 2005, concluded that removing consideration of race would have little effect on white students, but that Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in admitted classes that are currently taken by African-American or Hispanic students.
</code></pre>
<p>“The government already made the determination that the “statistical” data --the rhetorical and entirely fabricated numbers gleaned from asianam and the Princeton study-- provided in the original complaint were not sufficient to investigate further.”</p>
<p>The sentence,"–the rhetorical and entirely fabricated numbers gleaned from asianam and the Princeton study-- " is imagination or a fabrication</p>
<p>The sentence," The government already made the determination that the “statistical” data provided in the original complaint were not sufficient to investigate further." is correct.</p>
<p>But, I read it somewhere that since then the govt. has decided to investigate.</p>
<p>Far from ‘ridiculous’, amother, my Chinese national friends and employees have told me exactly how the process of emigration works in China. China has a brutal totalitarian government. Chinese citizens are not allowed to travel or emigrate freely. Emigration is often awarded to those with strong goverment connections; ie loyalty–or the wealthy–or the two could be one and the same. This was particularily true in 1992, when Li’s family emigrated.</p>
<p>I am curious how Li managed to retain his Chinese citizenship --and why. Are his parents also non-citizens? If so, how do they support themselves? My friends who were granted political asylum had to accept US citizenship before they could get green cards. How did his parents avoid that choice? I am curious about the circumstances of his emigration as he is now leading an attack on Princeton, a leading US institution.</p>
<p>I find his attack baffling. I would not find the attack as baffling if he was a true Asian American. However, he is not American. He is a Chinese national. He is a guest in the country. </p>
<p>Last weekend’s Wall Street Journal stated he–and his parents–are permanent residents, i.e., green card holders. Universities do not, to my knowledge, distinguish legal permanent residents from citizens. Similarly, National Merit Scholarship corporation requires one to be a citizen, permanent resident, or in the process of obtaining permanent residency.</p>
<p>I’m a little baffled at how many cc posters seem up in arms over the boy’s citizenship status. He is 17 years old; I don’t think he can obtain citizenship at this age without his parents’ permission. I’m willing to bet many of you know permanent residents who you assume are citizens. I have had several friends from Canada and England who did not bother to get citizenship until their children were born, even though they obtained their higher education here. Most of their acquaintances did not realize they were not U.S. citizens. </p>
<p>Whether or not the person on the street likes the fact that Li is not a citizen will have no bearing on the Dept. of Ed’s inquiry or conclusions, unless I misunderstand the current law. (I’m not a lawyer.)</p>
<p>The issue of citizenship is a question midmo because it is so difficult
a) to gain exit from China
b) to gain entry to the US
c) to gain a green card in the US </p>
<p>Also, isn’t it a bit queer that he claims to represent Asian Americans when he isn’t technically Asian American? Nevermind his official status as a college applicant, as a permanent resident of another country, I find that sentiment a bit queer. My sense of being a guest in this country is so strong, I cannot imagine filing a lawsuit. If and when I gain dual citizenship, I might feel differently.</p>
<p>You assume Li and his family want to be fully supportive US citizens. Please allow me to question that assumption. I see a Chinese family that has been in the US for 14 years without obtaining citizenship. That’s quite unusual in my experience as an immigrant and a long time friend and employer of Chinese nationals.</p>
<p>“Are his parents also non-citizens? If so, how do they support themselves?”</p>
<p>Probably by working. They also pay taxes, I’m sure. Permanent residents are not prohibited from holding a job. (Maybe not a high national security job.) All of my permanent resident friends and relatives (like my brother-in-law) are indistinguishable from citizens with regard to their work histories.</p>
<p>Again, I’m not a lawyer, but I have known, and still know, a lot of permanent residents. Some become citizens after a while, some don’t for a wide variety of reasons. I might also point out that I have quite a few American friends who work in Europe who have maintained their US citizenship.</p>
<p>I don’t assume anything about Li’s family. I have no idea why they aren’t U.S. citizens. I just thought I would point out that I don’t think it matters, from a legalistic standpoint.</p>
<p>yeah, they have green cards, so citizenship isn’t factored into admissions…</p>
<p>I have a friend who moved here (from China) when he was three and didn’t get his citizenship 'till he was… 18, I think… so, yes, it happens. That’s not all that weird.</p>
<p>FWIW, I prefer that long-time residents obtain citizenship. I bug friends about it. I still don’t know why my BIL is not a citizen, but it may have something to do with his departure from his then-Communist country of origin. I think there would be problems to deal with.</p>
<p>Americans and Europeans are allowed to hold multi-citizenships–as long as they do not work for the other governments. There are no political implications to the question of citizenship. </p>
<p>It is different for citizens of brutal totalitarian governments who are controlled by fear.</p>
<p>There may or may not be a political implication to the Li PR status. I am merely curious. Of course the parents are working–but are they working for a US company or for an organziation with Chinese affiliations–or for the Chinese government?</p>
<p>Please note that Mr Li admitted he intended to file this suit before he applied to college !! Do you know any other 16 year old applicants who enter the process with such intentions? Do you think he may have been spurred on by surrounding adults? If so–to what end?</p>
<p>I’ll have to go back and reread the WSJ article, but it was my impression that he said he was glad he was rejected off the waitlist rather than accepted off the waitlist. If he had been accepted off the wl, he would have no grounds for complaint, even though he would have already accepted the Yale offer (I’m assuming). In other words, the wl status was in reality a rejection from Princeton, for Li. That is very different than going into the college app process looking to prove discrimination. Please show me a clear quote that says he admits he was looking for an opportunity to complain from the beginning.</p>
<p>But you know, I don’t know anything really. I support his right to file a complaint, period. That is what makes this country different than many others, right?</p>
<p>Li doesn’t say he was hoping to be rejected from the P waitlist–he says he was hoping to be rejected by Princeton. Now, this could be a quoted out of context, but I wonder…</p>
<p>I agree. Anyone can file a complaint or lawsuit in America. However, in a case which attacks a venerated US institution and US policies of affirmative action, I believe the complainer and his motives should be subjected to rigorous examination, including an examination of his status as an American as well as an examination of his status as a possible agent (willing or unwilling) of a cunning, wealthy, brutal totalitarian government.</p>
<p>Yes. I read the study. The authors were very clear in the study that they were presenting a hypothetical situation in which SAT scores were the ONLY criteria for acceptance to college. They pointed out, again quite clearly, that SAT scores are NOT the only criteria.</p>
<p>In that sense, the study is kind of a “well, duh!” affair. It doesn’t take a study to know that, on average, Asian American applicants to highly selective colleges have higher SAT scores than African American applicants. Tell us something that we don’t already know.</p>
<p>Furthermore, any of us who have followed admissions at all, know that admissions offices weight SAT scores for different applicants differently. They weight SAT scores differently based on ethnicity, socio-economic factors, geographic factors, and athletic factors. The accept a class with high scorers, mid scorers, and low scorers in all ethnic categories. I’ve already posted stats that show UMich accepts four times more low-scoring whites than low scoring blacks.</p>
<p>"Li doesn’t say he was hoping to be rejected from the P waitlist–he says he was hoping to be rejected by Princeton. "</p>
<p>Seems that in itself could wreck his lawsuit because to fulfill his desire to be rejected, he could have done something like blown the interview in some way.</p>
cbreeze, the distinction in types of sports is pretty obvious: team sports vs. those that feature individual efforts. Again, I’m only presenting what I see in my town. Very fews Jews live here. Although my d has plenty of Jewish girls at her Catholic H.S. & most do play team sports. </p>
<p>I’m not familiar with the school orchestra in our town, so I don’t know who is in it. At my d’s h.s., as is common at many schools, there is a lage concentration of Asians in the string section. (The orchestra is an after-school activity, not a course.) D is the concertmaster, though. I am a huge fan of the vocal programs in the town school & often attend these performances & d’s friends sing in them. I’ve watched these kids since they were very young, and the Asian kids often drop singing when h.s. rolls around and the GPA is affected.</p>
<p>Do all Asians cry? Of course not. But several do because they are feeling tremendous pressure & have expressed that fact to their classmates.</p>
<p>
It’s really the other way around. I sympathized with Asians who complained about bias & their need to meet a higher admissions bar until I really started paying attention. I contend that there is a great deal of similarity among Asian kids’ “packages” in my town. That leads me to believe that the pattern may be repeated elsewhere & that this accounts for what shows up as discrimination when QUANTITATIVE factors are all that is considered.</p>
<p>Well, Interesteddad, on the SAT front, Asians do need higher scores than other groups. It looks like you agree with this statement. I guess Li wants to find out what else is going on. I’m glad you’re so sure everything else is fine.</p>
<p>Li isn’t and he has the right to find out.</p>
<p>From the article again…</p>
<p>“Li cites a recent study conducted by two Princeton professors as evidence for his case. The study, published in June 2005, concluded that removing consideration of race would have little effect on white students, but that Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in admitted classes that are currently taken by African-American or Hispanic students.”</p>
<p>From the paragraph…
“The study, published in June 2005, concluded that removing consideration of race would have little effect on white students,”</p>
<p>Hmmm. So Asians are affected but Whites aren’t. </p>
<p>Yes, let’s put Chinese attitudes toward diversity and race on the table too.</p>
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<p>Much as I love my Chinese national friends, they often tell me that they dislike blacks. They fumble during Affirmative Action discussions because of their staunch belief in their own superiority. They are completely dismissive of black intellectual promise–and slightly dismissive of white intellectual ability. They do not believe in Judeo-Christian ‘diversity’ as a social good. That is not the belief system that is taught in China.</p>
<p>In my experience, long time residents and second and third generation Asian Americans let go of their racism in favor of a more positive, more western view of diversity and the equality between the races.</p>
<p>Sadly, cheers, I have to admit the same is true of my Asian parents. They consistently look down upon African-Americans and Hispanics. Thankfully, this results in militantly egalitarian offspring, for the most part :D</p>