Rejected Stanford SCEA: Chances at Harvard?

Colleges & Universities Harvard University
1

<p>I was one of the victims of the Stanford Slaughter in SCEA this year, and was completely devastated. I was wondering how my chances are for some of the other colleges I’ve already applied to. Thanks in advance.</p>

<p>Objective:</p>

<p>SAT I (breakdown): 2320 (800 M, 750 CR, 770 WR)
SAT II: 800 Math II 800 Chinese w/ listening 790 Chemistry
Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): 3.92
Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): 4/300 unofficially, but marked as top 10% officially
IB predicted: 44/45, with HL: Chem (7) Bio (7) Econ (7) Math (7) and SL: Eng A1 (6) Chinese B (7)
**Senior Year Course Load: **Hard. Full IB. </p>

<p>Subjective:</p>

<p>**Extracurriculars: **

  • Member of Korea Kumdo Association (9, 10, 11, 12)
  • Webmaster/ Student representative of Heartbuzz International (registered NGO) (10, 11, 12)
  • Editor of Korean Buddhist Association Newsletter (9, 10, 11,12)
  • Nanumirak Global Youth Korean Network: China correspondent (10, 11, 12)
  • Historian of National Honor Society (11, 12)
  • President of Chinese Orchestra/ Guzheng player (9, 10)
  • President of Class Council (10), Vice-President of Class Council (9)
  • Student Council (9, 10)
  • Community Service: teaching English at local schools in Shanghai (9, 10)<br>
  • Community Service: Habitat for Humanity Philippines trip (11)</p>

<p>Honors/ Awards/ Distinctions:

  • High Honor Rolls (11)
  • Academic Excellence in Chemistry (9, 10, 11)
  • Academic Excellence in Biology (10)
  • Academic Excellence in Physics (9, 10)
  • Academic Excellence in English Language (10)
  • Academic Excellence in Chinese Language (9, 11)
  • Academic Excellence in Computer Technology (9, 10)
  • School Commitment Award (9, 10)
  • School Art Award (10)
  • Winner of 8th World Link Art Calendar Contest (10)
  • School Physical Education Award: Girl’s (9)
  • Inter-regional Korean Kendo Competition Girls’ Champion (9, 10, 11)
  • Certificate of Distinction in Fermat Mathematics Contest (11)
  • Youth Leadership Award in Global Young Leaders Conference (10)</p>

<p>**Job/Work Experience: **</p>

<ul>
<li> Harvard Summer School (2008 Summer)</li>
<li> Model United Nations of Seoul (2008 Summer)</li>
<li> Internship at Korea Press Center (2008 Summer)</li>
<li> Independent biological research on microbiology at Daesang Central Laboratory, Icheon (2008 Summer)</li>
<li> Global Young Leaders Conference (2007 Summer)</li>
<li> Teaching English at a local school in Inner Mongolia (2007 Summer)</li>
<li> Tutoring (2008)</li>
</ul>

<p>Other:</p>

<p>Applied for Financial Aid?: No
Intended Major: Economics
Country (if international applicant): Korean living in China
School Type: Private
Ethnicity: Asian
Gender: Female
Income Bracket: $1, 000, 000+
Hooks (URM, first generation college, etc.): NONE ;(</p>

2

<p>Well, your family’s income bracket certainly helps! Any ideas why Stanford rejected you? PM me with your topics on Intellectual vitality and “elaborate on activities”. Also, did you submit the optional essay for H? If so, what did you write about (PM)?</p>

<p>Remember, you’re Asian, so you can’t write like a typical white applicant. You have to prove you’re not a robot.</p>

3

<p>I saw on these boards somewhere that a kid who was rejected this year SCEA received an early write from Columbia. Not Harvard, but just shows the disparity in college decisions. So there is not only hope, there is possibility!</p>

4

<p>wow ur application is outstanding.
Last year, a friend of mine actually got rejected from university of Michigan and got accepeted in Yale. So i agree with curious not only is there hope but there is a great possibilty u would get accepeted in Harvard. Stanford may not have accepted you because they always prefer california residence students but Harvard are looking for students like you so dont worry and good luck !</p>

5

<p>UMich does not accept students who they don’t believe will go (thats what my college counselor told me and I go to a new england prep school and she has a lot of experience). but I know a girl who was rejected from amherst but got into Harvard (thr only other school she got into was Skidmore) so…yea its pretty random. </p>

<p>and how did you hold all those jobs during summer 08? and it sucks you don’t have a hook but whatever. I would say your a normal harvard applicant so it comes down to your essays</p>

6

<p>Stanford Slaughter was indeed a slaughter.</p>

<p>I was rejected too, but I got a likely letter to Columbia already. your stats are startling similar to mine (I even take IB with a similar IB total), but your EC’s look more impressive. if anything, I think you have as good a chance as any unhooked applicant.</p>

<p>

I wouldn’t write these two. P.E. in grade 9 seems pretty useless, and the Fermat was a really easy contest, so if you didn’t win or anything… it’s better to list only the things you put on your app on a chance thread.</p>

7

<p>OP: Stanford rejected you by accident. Don’t worry :slight_smile: I think you have a good chance, and your IB predicted is impressive.</p>

8

<p>Don’t worry too much about Stanford.</p>

<p>They rejected me SCEA as well and I got a likely letter from Columbia :P</p>

9

<p>Maybe you didn’t win any international awards like USAMO or the such.</p>

10

<p>curious77 and rayaz: thanks for your words! Im a lil more encouraged now ;D</p>

<p>and wow, so many people received likely letters from columbia. i didn’t get one though;( but i hope things will turn out fine still.</p>

11

<p>bumppppp ;D</p>

12

<p>Stanford is a good read for Harvard. If you used the same essays and recs and were not deferred at Stanford, I’d be surprised if the Harvard decision was different.</p>

13

<p>sorry to be blunt. but, my general impression is, this is a candidate who did a lot things for the sake of putting together a college appl resume, and her application package mostly reflect her parents connections and financial prowess. </p>

<p>honors and distinction list reads like a whole bunch of awards that the school she attends gives out in abundance to most of the students in school: like EVERY SINGLE kindergarden kid getting some sort of a award on a parent day. EC list shows no coherence or passion: just bunch of fancy sounding stuff that do not reflect the person’s passion. Work experience list reads like a proof of the family financial power (harvard summer program), connection, and privilege that got her name on all sorts of things in Korea SINGLE summer no less (2008)! - </p>

<p>I don’t get the impression that it’s candidates who have the passion for all this. It appears that she has a very well connected parents who arranged all these! For instance, the candidates says her intended major is economics. How come none of the ECs and experience reflect that? Hence, the impression it’s the parents with powerful connection that arranged all these for the sake of putting together college application.</p>

<p>All in all, my impression is, this is a candidate with growth hormone fed to the limit and beyond to generate busy college resume. If I were a adcom, I would rather see an organic food staple (if you know what I mean). </p>

<p>So, if I am getting this impression, it’s a fair bet that the adcoms are getting this impression too. Remember, they get this kind of pumped up college application resumes from Asian kids all over the place. New York Times runs, in a typical year, several articles about crazy phenomena in Asia - kids brought up by parents to be a college application robot with all sorts of things artificially put together for them. It’s notable that Stanford outright rejected this candidate, rather than deferred her in spite of amazing sounding things listed mile long. I believe they saw through all this and came to the same conclusion as mine. I have seen candidates who numerical stats are on par, and EC list that is way shorter than this, but shows the real person taking charge of his/her life - and they are either accepted or deferred, NOT rejected outright.</p>

<p>So, it boils down to the essay. Were you able to come across as a real person at all? Or, did you still come across as “your parents’ project”?</p>

14

<p>Wow science fiction, congratulations for being the first CCer to correctly read the extracurricular section.</p>

15

<p>science fiction, your comments are sharp and mostly correct. However, re: “they get this kind of pumped up college application resumes from Asian kids all over the place. New York Times runs, in a typical year, several articles about crazy phenomena in Asia - kids brought up by parents to be a college application robot with all sorts of things artificially put together for them.” </p>

<p>Many asian kids do have passion in what they do, not just for propping up college resume. I see many really talented asian kids - with stellar resumes. As you write, I think all real asian kids have this added burden of proof because of this stereotyping. When my son loves his instrument and makes it to the all state conference, when my son loves his laccrosse and works out every single night to condition himself without exception, it is not because of me. More, it is in spite of me because I occasionally yell at him to stop and go to bed. He did not do the sports or instrument to make himself look good in his college resume. When he applies with a (not so) long list of accomplishments, unfortunately he has added burden because of this stereotyping. I see white parents pushing their kids and they do not have this bs on their back. [You should want more parents to be like asian parents – then a lot of this country’s education problems will be gone and will no longer be a campaign issue. They do put their time, money and heart in their children’s education. ]</p>

16

<p>hoping dad:</p>

<p>without sharing too much of personal information about me, which I am not interested in, let’s just say that I know exactly what I am talking about - I know this Asian phenomenon well, too well. My comments are dead on for elite Asian community full of mothers whose life fulfillment is measured by what kind of school their kids were admitted to, and still relevant, to a lesser degree - to Asian American community.</p>

<p>I am NOT saying every Asian kid is his/her parents’ special project. That’s why I was wondering what kind of essay she wrote that may have dispelled the suspicion her post triggered in me, and probably in the minds of the elite school adcoms. If she was a genuine material, that message would have come through the essays, etc. That said, though, do you realize that among the elite Asian community, it’s a well known practice that even the essays are heavily, heavily, and heavily coached by very expensive “advisors”, who in some cases all but write the essays for the students? In some cases, even the grades, when they were translated into English, got magically inflated all by the teachers at the strenuous urging by the hyper ambitious parents who are paying top, top dollars for the elite private school tuitions.</p>

<p>Regarding your last comment: yes, this country would do better if more parents are like Asian parents, only diluted to be 5% concentration of the original strength. In a toxic environment where parents are driving their kids ruthlessly for college admission, kids are committing suicide in these countries over college admission and grades. Kids have organized MASSIVE college exam cheating crime ring using all sorts of modern technologies that amazed the authorities (creative hacking for the questions in advance, real time transmission of answers via texting and cell phone video mails, etc). </p>

<p>What do you say to the 1st grade kids who have an activity schedule from 7 AM to 11 PM all master minded by the mothers dead set on seeing to it that they make it to Harvard and make their parents proud. What do you say to the high school students who are sabotaging each other’s performance by shredding class notes and destroying homeworks because EVERY BODY is an enemy in the zero sum game of college admission? I have first hand observation of all these.</p>

<p>This does NOT apply to you. You seem to be a very picture of a parent who is genuinely interested in your son’s success for HIS sake and let him take charge. Good job!</p>

17

<p>OP: I don’t think you have a good chance. Your EC’s are all academic and none even show distinction. I didn’t apply to Harvard because of how competative it is, but my EC’s are still stronger than newsletters and cultural/religious organizations. I think harvard expects much more.</p>

18

<p>Science fiction: obviously you seem to have a first hand experience or knowledge of some of the ‘elite’ asian parents driving their children very hard to prepare them for college admission. But the way you are presenting it is really making it look like a widespread phenomenon. I know the dedication of parents, particularly moms, for their children’s education. I am not so sure if their dedication is purely for admission into the top colleges only. Some may do it just so their children do very well in the current schools. Being an asian American middle class (probably lower middle class) family I do not know of any such parent driving their “1st grade kids who have an activity schedule from 7 AM to 11 PM all master minded by the mothers dead set on seeing to it that they make it to Harvard and make their parents proud.” You must know of such family. But you are blowing it up one million folds and making it look like an asian American parents pandemic. That is completely untrue. You are dead wrong. If you are speaking about perhaps some localized social phenomenon in some asian countires, well, how many families in asia are trying to send their children to Harvard and go to the extreme as you describe? The absolute majority of asian Americans have no idea what you are talking about. Most asian American families that I know of can not afford to send their children for private lessons other than one music lesson, occasionally two, and one sports program. Believe it or now, the absolute majority of these folks are not that crazy. Kids who are taking the SAT prep classes are mostly whites. Some asian American kids do too. So will you know speak loudly how much the white families are insane about their children’s college entrance?? I know many medical doctor families. A very small fraction of them, who are very successful and super rich, send their children to a boarding school. Majority of them, who are many times richer than me, keep their children home, drive them around for music and sports lessons. I know of one asian family who sends kids for math lessons. But then I know of one white family who sends their children for nearly every academic subject to the private lessons. They are roughly at the same income level as me. Should I shout and curse this as a white phenomenon? What you are doing is painting the problem of an extremely small portion of population onto all asian community with an extremely broad brush. This affects our children’s future in the college application, which I do not like at all. </p>

<p>You talk of student suicides. Do you have any stat – what percentage of it is with asian American students and how many are whites? Doesn’t this occur much more with non asian students? Kids who are lucky enough to have parents investing in their future with money and time that they do not spend for themselves, such as in various extracurricular activities, I would think these kids will be much more well rounded and emotionally balanced. Students who do academics only with no sports or do not have other things they are passionate about or want to spend time on, they probably will be more easily stressed out and prone to problems.</p>

<p>By the way, I don’t know about you, but I would be extremely proud if my children made it into the top colleges. Nothing wrong with being proud of children’s accomplishments. I would even brag about it to my colleagues.</p>

19

<p>science fiction, you are blowing everything way out of proportion. I am white, and yes, there are asian parents who drive their kids to the extremes to get them into college. In fact, i know an asian girl at my school who applied to 27 colleges, and all the ivies, because of her parents. But there are white parents doing the same thing. And the majority of all parents are not like this. Yes, they might want to push their child to get a good education so they can succeed in life, but what is wrong with that? And I have never heard anything about kindergardeners with full schedules, shredding of notes and homeworks, or suicides because of stress from parents. So, while I believe you when you say this happens, it is not nearly as widespread as you make it out to be. </p>

<p>All in all, you need to stop stereotyping the Asian community so much.</p>

20

<p>I think we have a misunderstanding. you (hopingdad and danr) seem to think that I was talking primarily about Asian Americans. Most of my observations apply to asian countries. the suicides and cheating stories were all in those countries (not in USA). My post was mostly about Asian elite community in ASIA: the OP was applying from that milieu, so that makes my observation dead on the mark, and relevant to this discussion. Believe me, this milieu is something I have a direct first hand experience and observation on. I am NOT exaggerating at all. If anything, I did not share more details that may be even more shocking. </p>

<p>That said, many Asian ethnic communities even in this country are rather “hyperactive” on this regard. The story of 1st graders with incredible schedule is true, reported in an Ethnic newspaper in the NYC area: the newspaper made it very clear that this is not an isolated problem, and rather endemic within that community. </p>

<p>Asian communities themselves are diverse. I used the word “Asian elite community”, and my observations are about this community. You experience and observation may be different. What I observed is true and rampant WITHIN this community. Even outside of the elite community, in some ethnic communities, there is an EXTREME pressure to go to the top college at any means. </p>

<p>There was a story of an Asian MIT student who committed suicide by setting herself on fire in her dorm room. The story that came out was that she was pushed to the limit by her hyper ambitious parents to make it to MIT even though her natural ability was really not at that level. I recall that these parents tried to sue the school district when they realized that their daughter was not going to be a Val. Later when the daughter realized that she just couldn’t keep up with other kids who made it to MIT with significant head room still intact, she was driven to the depth of depression. Another Asian girl who “attended” Stanford, and turns out, she was faking it: going to classes and all that though she was not admitted there. Later, she explained that because of her parents’ pressure, she couldn’t tell them that she was rejected. So, she created an elaborate scheme to make everybody in her community believe that she is a Standford student. In many geographical communities of a certain national group every year they publish a list of students who made it to the top Ivies: everybody in the community then know whose kids made it to the top schools, and whose kids failed. Then the issue of college admission becomes a dominant subject matter for a while. By the way, most of these phenomena are observed among the first generation Asian parents. By the time they are second generation Asian Americans, they do not raise their children in this manner. Perhaps, this is the case for you???</p>

<p>Yes, all this, you can say, happens also in the white community. Perhaps. But the gist of the matter is the statistical “likelihood”, and the likelihood of this happening in the Asian community is several times higher. As much as my examples of the Asian community may be anecdotal, your examples of crazy white families are also anecdotal: the difference is, my anecdotal examples are MUCH more frequent and prevalent, hence create a meaningful difference. </p>

<p>If anything, aren’t you contradicting yourself now by saying that white parents are as “dedicated and devoted” as Asian parents. You mentioned in your previous post that the country would be better off if more parents are like Asian parents. So perhaps, you DO acknowledge the group difference? I was simply building on your sentiment expressed thus by pointing out that it’s NOT 100% all good and well, and there is a side effect of this “dedicated Asian parents” phenomenon.</p>

<p>Again, NO disrespect for your hard work as a conscientious parent. But, we should also acknowledge the wide spread problem. Should we ignore the problems of gangs and violence within the inner city community because it’s not politically correct to point this out? I am simply pointing out that there is a not-so-pleasant side to the much vaunted Asian success stories, and perhaps if we can maximize the good while addressing the bad, we will all be better off.</p>