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<p>oops, thanks.</p>
<p>Well he did liberate India from the British, didn’t he?</p>
<p>lealdragon – almost all major Protestant groups have “peace fellowships” or groups within them that focus on peace and justice issues. If you are in San Antonio, try contacting the San Antonio Mennonite Church – they would probably be able to connect you with Interfaith and other Christian peace groups in the area as well as let you know what they are doing. (And no, they don’t wear bonnets or drive buggies).</p>
<p>ok, thanks! I’m relieved to find that they exist. I guess it’s just that the extremists are more vocal, especially with Haggee’s church here in town.</p>
<p>Actually, there are some wonderful, thoughtful anti-war, social justice evangelicals, too (evangelical and fundamental are not the same thing.)</p>
<p>One of my personal heroes is Jim Wallis. His Sojourners website is an eye-opener for those who think they know what Christians, including evangelicals, are all about:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.sojo.net/[/url]”>http://www.sojo.net/</a></p>
<p>A current campaign from Sojourners:
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<p>I can only say, WOW! I do live in a suburb that is in a conservative collar county of the Chicago area, and I am bombarded by this all the time; I wish I didn’t have to be.</p>
<p>My story is interesting in some ways - I grew up Catholic in the South, where there are few Catholics. I’ve since spent my life in the Midwest, where Catholicism is strong, but I left the Catholic church and became Protestant. Leal… this thread resonates with me deeply. A year and a half ago, I graduated from a mainline Protestant seminary and wanted to continue the chaplaincy work I’ve been doing with a hospice agency for four years. However, my denomination (as do all mainline Protestant denominations) has a very prescribed set of hoops we must jump to be officially ‘rostered’ as a minister of that denomination. I have jumped every hoop, except the last one that would make it all official. I totally agree with your observation (possibly more regional in nature) that the large Christian mega churches have the money, power and the Moral Majority behind them, who are very vocal in government. When I’m working with people who have not been church goers, and introduce myself as the chaplain, it truly breaks my heart when they automatically assume I’m there to evangelize them and convert them because that’s what so many people associate Christianity with these days. When I’ve been with fundamentalist patients/families, and they ask me what kind of church I go to, and I respond, I can tell they are immediately judging me because it’s not a church that practices adult baptism, or believes in being saved, or being born again. It is very difficult, but I am called to be with this family, regardless of what their beliefs are, and I am not called to convince them that I am right and they are wrong or visa versa. When I feel so harshly judged by fundamentalist people who claim a tradition that has the same name as mine, it makes me want to run in the other direction and have nothing to do with Christianity whatsosever. However, if I want to continue in this field, I will need to find a way to process my anger at those who give Christianity a bad name, whether that be by judging me, endorsing a war that I don’t believe is necessary, or covering up decades of pedophelia amongst its priests.</p>
<p>It is heartbreaking to realize that the liberties people take with the word Christianity are responsible for alienating people from a relationship with their higher power. I never, ever want to be associated with someone who claims God approves or wishes harm or violence on anyone. </p>
<p>I hope this post explains why my favorite quote is by St. Francis of Assisi: “Preach the gospel… and if you must, use words.”</p>
<p>Ah, yes, Sojourners! I had heard about them during the last election but didn’t really know much about them or how active they still are. I love the 20,000 prayer surge!</p>
<p>I love the positive direction this thread is starting to head in!</p>
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<p>What a fantastic quote–I love it!</p>
<p>Wow, teriwtt, thanks so much for sharing this. Your story really illustrates what I’m talking about.</p>
<p>I love that quote, too.</p>
<p>“I never, ever want to be associated with someone who claims God approves or wishes harm or violence on anyone.”</p>
<p>Some issues are more thorny than others. What would you say about God’s approval or disapproval for waging violence against a country or group that is in turn waging violence against another group of innocent people? For example, would it be wrong to step in militarily to defend the people of Darfur or Rwanda? Would God expect those who are able to prevent violence against an oppressed people to just stand by and criticise the oppression or would he expect/approve of intervention?</p>
<p>That’s an amazing quote. :)</p>
<p>I highly doubt that God is in favor of war. Like you, lealdragon, I have to wonder what denomination that person was. I don’t ever remember Jesus telling us to “kill our neighbor if they do something we disagree with”.</p>
<p>What about “turn the other cheek”?</p>
<p>fundingfather, I agree that there are some issues where it’s hard to know what God would think. I think in those circumstances we just have to use our best judgement and hope that we’re doing the right thing.</p>
<p>I agree. Also, it’s important to realize that it’s always the leaders of a country, not the citizens, who start wars. Most people, wherever they are, generally want the same things: to be able to make a decent living, care for their families, etc. It is the corrupt leaders who oppress people and try to build empires at the expense of their citizens and those of other countries. It’s always about power and greed. They are trying to dominate the people in other countries the same as they are dominating the people in their own. It’s not so much about country boundaries but about the difference between the populace and the leaders. Therefore, the best way to help the oppressed is to empower them, so they don’t just fall prey to the next corrupt leader. (This is a generalization, of course.) Sure, there are times in which physical intervention might be necessary. But it should be a very grave decision indeed.</p>
<p>^Or money. Can’t forget the ever-powerful dollar/yen/peso/etc.</p>
<p>I think money is a physical representation of power, so it’s sort of included.</p>
<p>Christianity is a religion of peace. Simply read over the life of Jesus. He preached and lived a peaceful life. The one exception I can think of is when he saw people trying to profit by using religion (where he overturned the vendor’s tables in the Temple). As was brought up before, he chose to forgive his executors even while he was dying.</p>
<p>The way I have heard the Bible described was that the Old Testament often included imperfect solutions for an imperfect world. Grace (salvation through Jesus) had not appeared yet. If you read through the OT, most everyone included had “issues” but God continued to work good through them. The New Testament offers the prefered way of dealing with things. It is the new covenant and the perfect (and prophisied) solution–through Jesus. I’m not sure I explained that right, but it’s close to what I beleive. </p>
<p>The debate over if there is a “just” war is a very complex one. I believe there is such a thing. I would rather wars be avoided, but I believe that would damage or destroy nations in some situations (WWII is the prime example, the 1st Gulf War also seems reasonable to me). As a military member, I would rather see diplomacy work, but if the worst happens, I want to be able to protect my country and the vicims of aggression. Perhaps “Walk softly, and carry a big stick” is the appropriate maxim for my view.</p>
<p>The Air Force Academy has come a long way from the scandals. I haven’t seen anyone pressured about their religion. There is still progress to be made, but I have not seen intrusive Evangelical Christianity in my year and a half here.</p>
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<p>It seems to me that many people are still living in the old testament, when they insist on doing things the ‘old’ way - thru violence - rather than having enough faith to believe that Jesus could still work some miracles today. Why do they believe Jesus worked miracles back then but not now? Couldn’t Jesus work miracles now, thru his followers? Is it such a stretch to think that a peaceful solution could be found?</p>
<p>The example of Jesus getting angry in the temple is always given, almost as if it were a fault of his, but getting angry is a far cry from getting violent.</p>