<p>Previous discussions on this site have claimed that organized religion is united against homosexual acts, gay marriage and gay clergy. Here’s an example of another religious group which does NOT hold those beliefs – Conservative Judaism. </p>
<p>This is not a small group. One-third of American Jews who go to synagogue are affiliated with the movement. Another 38% of Jewish synagogue attendees in American are involved with the Union for Reform Judaism, and that group has already supported gay clergy and marriage.</p>
<p>So, let’s stop those claims about what “religious people” believe. They are not true.</p>
<p>I don’t want to get tied up in yet another thread about this topic, but I do believe that the consensus of previous threads was that certain Christian denominations (Roman Catholicism, Orthodox Christians, Evangelical Christians) oppose gay marriage. I don’t think the case was made that all religions are opposed.</p>
<p>definitely. in my predominately jewish hometown, there are many active members of the community who are openly gay. there are also openly gay rabbis/cantors in reform and conservative congregations.</p>
<p>I was heavily involved in many of those discussions, and I never once made the claim that “organized religion” is “united” against “homosexual acts, gay marriage and gay clergy.” Nor did I make any claims about what “religious people” believe.</p>
<p>There are many liberal Christian sects in this country which allow gay clergy and gay marriage, in addition to the Jewish group you pointed out. I’m sure there are many other religious groups, like Pagans and Wiccans, which support gay marriage also.</p>
<p>momfromme, I think this thread should be posted in the Cafe. The Parents Forum is supposed to be reserved for topics related to the college search, college prep, college life, etc. of interest to parents.</p>
<p>In my Reform Temple, which is the largest in the State of Virginia, not only is our Associate Rabbi gay, but the Senior Rabbi, a politically liberal, doctrinally conservative, woman, married him to his partner this year. Obviously it wasn’t legal under civil law, but we’re Reform so we can pretty much do what want.</p>
<p>Just to clarify: Conservative Judaism has not yet made a decision on the status of gay and lesbian Jews in the movement. The Committee on Jewish Law and Standards, which is the central authority on Jewish law within the Conservative Movement, is scheduled to meet on December 5 and 6 to create policy with regard to admission and ordination of gay rabbis and rabbinical performance of same-sex unions. This is a point of great contention within the movement. Despite its title, if you read the article linked in the OP, you’ll see it only predicts the outcome of the upcoming meeting. (Personally, I don’t think the outcome is predictable.) But in any event, the meeting hasn’t taken place yet and no decision has been made.</p>
<p>I realize that this discussion is probably aimed at the situation in the U.S. but here in Toronto, there’s a wonderful church, the Metropolitan Community Church of Toronto that has been ministering to the gay and lesbian communities in the city for a few decades now. It’s pastor, Rev. Brent Hawkes, performed the first gay marriage in Canada, and the church has seen thousands performed since the first in 2003. </p>
<p>It’s a wonderful, accepting, loving, kind, and generous group of parishioners who devote thousands of hours every year to volunteering with many different organizations in the city. They have a large following and gain much support from many in the city who are not themselves gay or lesbian, our family included. In fact, it’s where we all will be on Christmas Eve. The largest Christmas Eve service in Canada will take place, as it does every year, at Roy Thomson Hall, a beautiful concert hall in the city, to accomodate the 2500 people who want to attend, and to best showcase the many talented music professionals who take part. It will be a wonderful day, indeed, when the stories such as we’re relating here, will be the rule, rather than the exception.</p>
<p>“On November 9 {2006} more than 40 denominational and religious leaders from various backgrounds released a “Declaration of Marriage” defending the natural definition of marriage and requesting Parliament and the rest of Canada to rethink the issue.”</p>
<p>“Changing the definition of marriage involves a repudiation of millennia of history and experience, said the declaration, which was signed by Baptists, Catholics, Islamics, Mennonites, Methodists, Orthodox and Pentecostal leaders.”</p>
<p>“Such a move by the Conservative government could come in December and it could be the first step in the process to overturn a 2005 law pushed through by the then liberal government…”</p>
<p>“Even before gay marriage was legalized, there were concerns about the curtailing of religious freedom in Canada.”</p>
<p>Oh hh, you are so predictable, you really are. The fact remains that it is the current law in Canada and has been for a few years now. That there are still those who believe in “some being more equal than others”, should come as no surprise. Intolerance exists everywhere. Canada is no exception. The likelihood of the current Conservative government changing this law is slim. It’s a minority government and this type of legislation will not be easy to overturn. People have realized in the years since gay marriage became legal that allowing everyone to make a personal commitment of love to another human being is not going to be the end of heterosexual marriage, families, religious beliefs, or society. </p>
<p>You might direct your sights and focus to strengthening heterosexual marriage itself, and the problems which have for decades existed there, and continue to exist. You might start with Britney and Pamela. They look like they could use some help!</p>
<p>Our Friends Meeting has sanctioned gay marriages since 1988. No gay clergy, though - we get around that one by not having ANY clergy, gay or straight.</p>
<p>^^^I don’t agree with Alwaysamom’s approach to other posters. I’m sorry to say that I find your comments to be judgemental and intolerant of others, who may have deeply religious objections to gay marriage. I respect your right to a point of view – I just wish you were a little kinder to those who disagree and were a little less insistent that your view is always right.</p>
<p>I’ve never commented on my opinions on this topic. I am ambivalent – I’m in favor of love and kindness in any relationship, but I have reservations about gay marriage as a law. I don’t think I’m either bigoted or hateful – I just have a different point of view, which I generally keep to myself. I don’t see how it’s helpful to discuss this. </p>
<p>People have a right to an opinion, even if it’s not the majority.</p>
<p>sjmom, in my post #9 I was offering a contribution to the discussion on the thread. There was nothing judgmental or intolerant there. And naturally, HH had to jump in with her usual link to an obscure article on the topic which was obviously a ‘rub it in your face’ attempt. Why are you not even commenting on that? I’m curious. Is it because she shares your opinions? Is it ‘anything goes’ as far as her comments are concerned? I made the mistake of replying to her. I had promised myself not to do that any longer because as Kluge so wisely stated in another thread, there is no dialogue there.</p>
<p>sjmom just stated that she was ambivalent about the topic. Curious you would ask her that question when she just said she didn’t have the same opinions as mine. (I am not ambivalent.)</p>
<p>You may want to review carefully your post #11 to understand why your approach may be off-putting to some people.</p>
<p>Alwaysamom, I think I stated my ambivalence about gay marriage in post #15. I don’t feel the need to explain or defend myself any further. I detect a sense of something (arrogance? superiority?) in your post – perhaps I misunderstood your words. </p>
<p>“That there are still those who believe in “some being more equal than others”, should come as no surprise. Intolerance exists everywhere.”</p>
<p>Just because not everyone jumps on a particular bandwagon doesn’t mean they are either stupid or mean-spirited. When you suggest that those who are not in favor of gay marriage are intolerant, you negate the validity of their feelings and faith. Tolerance means acceptance for a variety of viewpoints, not just those that agree with you. I think I’ve said all I want to say on this subject – I mean no animosity, but this subject has been hashed enough for me.</p>
<p>On a different topic, did your friend ever get the Yankee relish she was looking for?</p>
<p>“there were concerns about the curtailing of religious freedom in Canada”</p>
<p>Wuh? How does CIVIL gay marriage interfere with anyone’s religious freedom?</p>
<p>I can see why people would be opposed, as a matter of policy, to the government sanctioning what they perceive to be sin. But I honestly don’t see how it impacts the religious freedom of those who disapprove. My religion tells me that the Iraq war is wrong, but the prosecution of the war does not impede my religious freedom at all. (My future financial freedom is another story, but that’s another thread.)</p>