Remain in AP/Honors and get 2.6 GPA, or go to CP level and get A's

Athletic Recruits
1

<p>My situation,</p>

<p>Ivy hopeful (HYP), 2.6 GPA Freshmen year in CP classes (was lazy etc). Am enrolled in 2 honors and 2 AP sophomore year, however scores are still at 2.6 even with hard work. I am not sure that I will be able to get the scores much higher in these classes, so I ask CC for advice.</p>

<p>Do I remain in AP/Honors and get a 2.6 or possibly lower, or do I calm down, realize my limitations, and drop to CP and get A’s and B’s. According to the ivy league website for recruits, it is recommended to take the hardest classes available. My school has a lot of AP and Honors courses, so it will look bad if I cruise with A’s in CP. Now for AI, I can still get that 200 AI score ballpark for admission if I get high ACT and SAT II subject scores, however my chief concern is that I won’t be able to stay in these classes, and will likely do poorly in them.</p>

<p>With your experience, has any football player been accepted to Harvard with a LL or simple admissions with a 2.6 GPA? Many posters on this forum warn me that it is extremely low, however GPA has always been a problem for me, so I wish to get all information possible in order to solve this problem. I can try and prove that I am smart through many other ways, however tests I have some difficulty with, and actual school I just can’t seem to score well.</p>

<p>The good news is that I still have 3 more quarters, my midterms, and finals left. So if I begin to really work hard, I can see myself bring my 68’s to B’s. Even then, will it be enough?</p>

<p>Also, I have problems with getting game time, due to potential D1 prospect hogging all of the minutes at my current school, so will filming myself during practice and JV games be allowed in highlight films? Or is it Varsity or get out kind of deal? I know that they care about your skill, and I can really show that in practice etc, however I do not know if they will become suspicious if I don’t have varsity time. Also, will any camps really help me be recruited? I was thinking of heading to Harvard’s camp my junior year, and a few others in order to get more weight to my application, however I have much to learn in the classroom and in the field, and I honestly don’t know what to do.</p>

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<p>“With your experience, has any football player been accepted to Harvard with a LL or simple admissions with a 2.6 GPA?”</p>

<p>With decent test scores - it’s possible, but you would probably be a low-band recruit, of which each school may only be allotted a handful. </p>

<p>More to the point, when you say “a potential D1 prospect” is taking all your playing time - you realize Ivy football is D1, right? And especially for a lower band recruit, the athletic bar is set high. Certainly higher than just logging varsity playing time. </p>

<p>One last thought - if you’re really struggling with the honors/AP course load now - how happy/successful will you be at a very competitive college while devoting 20-30 hours per week to your sport?</p>

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<p>First, you are not getting into any of the schools you have listed with the grades, scores, JV athletics, and excuses you make for each.</p>

<p>Second, wishing all the hurdles away will not bring you a step closer - hopium does not get you into these schools. Accomplishments - in the classroom, on the athletic field, on the tests - those get you a chance.</p>

<p>Third, if you were a top D1 prospect, no one would be hogging anything. If you were a top D1 recuit, your HS coach would have you playing a different position - just to get you onto the field. D1 football recruits are very rare - that type of talent always finds a way to play.</p>

<p>You post answers your questions: you’re stuggling with a “Harvard” required curriculum, you’re not playing varsity in your second year of HS, and you’re already conceding that testing isn’t going to be any better. While accomplishments on the field may allow for a few players to be admitted who otherwise would not have any chance, those players have already made their presence felt in HS. You have not.</p>

<p>Set your sights on a more realistic goal. HYP are not in your cards.</p>

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<p>Paul, not to sound like a jerk but just to give you an idea of the academic competition you will see, my son is a football player going to HYP next year. He is an IB diploma candidate, which basically means that for the last two years each of his classes were AP classes. Before that, each of his classes were honors classes. He does the majority of his homework in class, rarely studies more than an hour ish a night at home and has an unweighted 4.2. To my knowledge, he has never earned a grade below a B+ at any point in his academic history. He didn’t prep for the SATs or ACTs (his school offers a prep course, which he blew off in favor of a lunch period) and scored a 2300/34 in one sitting. He is nervous about the academic/athletic load ahead of him next year, but thinks (in my opinion correctly) that a rigorous environment like that is the right move for him. Stemit, or Fenwaysouth, or several other parents on this board can tell you pretty much the same thing about their kid. Those are the kids that end up as good fits in the Ivys. </p>

<p>A buddy of my son’s is an A (lowest) or B (second lowest) recruit at a couple Ivys this year. That kid has a GPA in the low 3s in a smattering of AP and honors courses. I think his lowest grade was a C in honors calculus last year. His test scores were a little low, but still in the top twenty percent or so nationally. He studies his butt off every night. The Ivys may not be the right place for him, even though he is a smart, intellectually curious kid. </p>

<p>I can not fathom how daunting HYP or really any Ivy/NESCAC would be for a student struggling to stay above a C average as a sophomore. </p>

<p>Football wise, not getting a ton of reps on varsity as a sophomore may not be a big deal. That really depends on the program you come from. If it is a big time program that pumps kids into D1 consistently, that really isn’t an issue. My son travelled as a sophomore but only got a couple dozen or so snaps total all year on varsity. Now, there are not many of those kind of programs out there, and if you are at a more normal school, then I would agree with Stemit, and the coach would be trying to get you on the field somewhere, even this year if you were a legit D1 level player.</p>

<p>You need to be realistic. Enjoy the next couple years, and find something within your grasp that moves you. the name of the college you graduate from won’t be on your tombstone, and it won’t mean a damn to the people who will be important to you in your life. Good luck. </p>

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<p>You’ve asked the same question in various ways at least twice:
<a href=“What is required to get a Harvard LL - Athletic Recruits - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/athletic-recruits/1676375-what-is-required-to-get-a-harvard-ll-p1.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“Questions on AI and stats - Athletic Recruits - College Confidential Forums”>Questions on AI and stats - Athletic Recruits - College Confidential Forums;
You’ve received some solid advice from posters who have been through this process. What questions do you have that have not been answered?</p>

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<p>The coursework at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton isn’t easy. If you’re struggling with two APs I think you should reconsider your goal of studying at one of these schools. Case in point: My son was well prepared for Princeton, having taken 16 or 17 APs, including 7 junior year and 7 more senior year. He had 5s on all but one AP test and an unweighted 4.0 GPA. He tells me he needed to work much harder in college than he did in high school.</p>

<p>Be careful what you wish for.</p>

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<p>Do not feed the ■■■■■…His post is obviously invented. HS freshmen with 2.6 GPAs are not placed in 2 AP and 2 honor classes as sophomores. His knowledge of acronyms like HYP, AI etc. seems too advanced for a first semester sophomore in HS. He hopes to bring his 68’s up… He asks if filming practices and JV tape will be enough…etc. etc.</p>

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<p>^ I am not a ■■■■■, simply a sophomore who spends a lot of time in CC. I can absorb acronyms and knowledge like a sponge, so I can assure you that you have a legit person. I appreciate the advice that the college I go to will not be on my tombstone, and you are dead right on that. I self placed myself in 2 honors and AP against teacher recommendation because well I can, school policy. Right now grades make me shed a tear, the only saving grace that I have is that I have 3 quarters left, my midterms, and my finals. If I get a high grade on all of these I can set myself up for success. And if you wish to do further research on me, you will find that my out of this world career expectations are real as well.</p>

<p>I think I deal with a ■■■■■ alert poster every thread, so I will repeat the same thing, if you don’t wish to assist, then do not post. I also love challenges, and I feel that Harvard will give me that awesome challenge that I can learn from. </p>

<p>So questions</p>

<p>Can I get in with a 2.6 (poster said I can \o/, answered)</p>

<p>Can training and JV game footage be sufficient to show my skills</p>

<p>How can I raise AP test scores for the next 3 quarters of the year?</p>

<p>Simple things like these, I already know that my GPA can count with decent test scores, now I need to get big enough to compensate with football. My program is unfortunately not that great, however for some reason we have very good competition for my position, and I am simply having trouble getting on the field. Long story short every single card is stacked against me, so I need to beat all the odds.</p>

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<p>All potential advice for my athlete recruitment goal, I am asking. We can cross the extremely hard work at Harvard bridge when I get accepted :D</p>

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<p>I hate to say this too, but I wouldn’t even say that Harvard would present a “challenge”, but I can say for sure that it’d kick your ass. My parents went to top state schools (dad to Cal Berkeley, mom to UMich) and have had incredibly successful careers. Ivies are not the end-all-be-all for a successful career. I will be at an HYP school next year (I’m an athletic recruit for a non-helmet sport) and one of my friends there said he was worried about job landing because of his GPA (he had a 3.7, and the reality is that these ivies pump out near-perfect GPA students every year and the career finding is INTENSE at these universities). It’d be better to stand out at the top of your class with a high GPA at a top state school then almost fail out of an Ivy. At the end of the day, an Ivy will give you a hook if you make the most of it, and if anything, no one will care that you went to Princeton if you proved that you weren’t ready for college. How could employers trust you then?</p>

<p>Keep your options open. I’ve had so many ideas of where I thought I’d want to go and as a sophomore I never would have thought that I would be going to the school where I will be going next year. Good luck, but be realistic. </p>

<p>EDIT: Some state schools provide similar educations to those of Ivies, may have slightly higher acceptance rates as well, but they will also present that “challenge” that you want. Just be smart about this. </p>

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<p>^ Very true points here. I really understand the gravity and potential kicking that I am going to get, however I am aiming for Harvard because of it’s financial aid policy. Right now, I do not want to pay for college, as I have a sort of fear of debt. I will qualify for full ride/ or at least a HUGE portion of tuition covered (immigrant Hispanic family, no parent finished college, parents divorced). I also want to be the first, the first in my family to not only go to a college, but the best one in the United States, as well as claim the title of first senior to go to Harvard from my school.</p>

<p>It is very hard for sure, I know that school was never my strong suit, however I decided to bite the bullet and take it, I miss the days where I can get a nice 9 hours of sleep, without having to cry myself to sleep because of the pain after football practice (not literally, but the pain is incredibly strong) It is a long road ahead of me, and I know that no matter my outcome, this will be a good learning experience for me.</p>

<p>I understand that I have a C, and that I will likely bash my head against the wall the moment I step foot into a Harvard classroom, however it’s what I need to do.</p>

<p>I need to improve everything, athletic skill, academics, and I likely won’t be able to do it alone. Quite honestly I’m alone in this endeavor, as my guidance counselors think I’m insane :D. </p>

<p>Any further questions about me as a person, feel free to ask. Failing that, I ask of you to simply tell me any bit of information that you can, I know that I have made like 10 posts on this subject, but better to over-study than bomb the test am I right lads/lasses?</p>

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<p>You want to get A’s and B’s in high school no matter where you apply. I would drop down to on level if that is what it takes so you can get into college. The reality is your grades will not get you into the super competitive schools you are aspiring to. Are you on JV because there are so many players being recruited to D1 schools? You have to be realistic. </p>

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<p>Paul, </p>

<p>I admire your tenacity, but asking the same question ( third thread - same subject) to the board isn’t going to change the answer. The fact is no one really knows the answer, but HYP doesn’t look great.</p>

<p>You say, “I understand that I have a C, and that I will likely bash my head against the wall the moment I step foot into a Harvard classroom, however it’s what I need to do.” </p>

<p>Just understand Harvard will NOT let you step foot into the classroom and bash your head against the wall as they weed out students that are going to struggle…</p>

<p>First, when you are a great athletic talent, it JUMPS OUT.<br>
It’s a bit worrisome that your football coach doesn’t yet feel that way about your talent,
but given time, maybe you will grow into your body.
JV will not cut it though. PERIOD. Do not waste your time filming JV.<br>
Coaches will expect you to play varsity. Perhaps, next year, in 11th grade, you will be on the varsity team, and you can do the filming then.</p>

<p>What are your real goals in life…
Do you want to be a football player… going to the SEC conference?
Or do you want to be a finance, lawyer, doctor, scientist - IVY’s, Chicago, MIT</p>

<p>If you got into Harvard, but you were not academically prepared for the school, what would you do when you graduate? Unfortunately, I know a couple of guys who did play IVY football and really don’t do anything that substantial or meaningful as an adult ( their jobs could have been acquired with a high school degree at best).</p>

<p>So, you need to refocus here.<br>
Are you planning to play for the NFL or something different?
If it is something besides the NFL, then you need to focus on your school work.</p>

<p>I know a lot of schools let kids take AP’s without having A’s in the prior year classes. I should tell you that dilutes the schools’ reputation as you have a lot of kids who don’t score well.<br>
On the other hand, it’s a plus for many kids, as you can take a lot of AP tests.<br>
My son’s school only allows 2 AP’s a year starting in 11th grade.
However, you are going to have to take the AP tests, and colleges look at that.<br>
You need to at least get a 4, IVY’s would expect a 5.</p>

<p>I can’t answer if you should drop the AP classes. Ask your teachers their opinion. Can they meet with you and review the material? And most importantly, how do you feel about it. Are you close to understanding the material or is it completely like reading Chinese ? If the latter ( Chinese), drop it.</p>

<p>Also, the statement here is worrisome -
“I need to improve everything, athletic skill, academics, and I likely won’t be able to do it alone. Quite honestly I’m alone in this as my guidance counselors think I’m insane”. </p>

<p>Your guidance counselor wants to help you, but you need to listen to him/her. They are looking at the naviance of their school and what it takes to get into Harvard. They are not trying to frustrate you, but point you in the right direction. You need to hear them openly.</p>

<p>Paul, we would like to hear from you again. How about coming back in January and checking in.
Give us a wrap up of the football season ( minutes played, scoring etc, and midterm grades).</p>

<p>Best,
Charles</p>

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<p>If you become a better football player, you have a chance at a D-1 school. NOT Harvard. NOT playing football at a big school like Michigan or Notre Dame (based on your own assessment of your football ability). But there are a lot of good schools with D-1 football programs. If you get a scholarship at any of those schools, it is full COA except transportation - room, board, tuition, fees, books. Football is a headcount sport, so it is all or nothing except at the Ivies.</p>

<p>You also might find joy at a D-2 school. The football scholarship doesn’t have to be 100%, but it could be, or there could be some federal pell grants or SEOG money.</p>

<p>Work toward Harvard ( it won’t happen) but don’t cut off your other options. You don’t want be sitting on your sofa in 3 years watching others play football because you only wanted to go to Harvard and would accept nothing else.</p>

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<p>Paul, I think a lot of the advice I and others are trying to give you can boil down to one thing. Your focus is misplaced. You shouldn’t be trying to succeed in your high school classes so that you can get in to Harvard. You should be trying to learn. You should work on mastery of the material before you, not in order to convince Coach Murphy or some faceless AdCom reviewer that you are worthy of a shot at Harvard, but so that you are prepared for the life that lies ahead of you. If you blossom as a student over the next few years, then maybe Harvard or another elite school will be a realistic option. To date, your academic performance wouldn’t indicate that, but you can only control what happens today, not yesterday. It is the journey that is important, not the destination. </p>

<p>As far as athletics, the best advice I can give is to go to some camps next summer. If you can’t attend Harvard’s camp or one of the other Ivy camps, find the “high academic” camp in your region (Northwestern, Vandy, Stanford, Rice, etc). Some Ivy coaches will be there. Study the players the Ivy coaches talk to and are interested in. That will give you an idea of the level of athleticism you should shoot for.</p>

<p>You need to realize that life continues after college admission. Yes, where you attend college will shape you and will help define the arc of your later life. But you seem to be fixated on getting in to Harvard, and then assuming that all the rest of your plans will follow one after another. What I and others who are a bit farther along the ride of life are trying to tell you is that it doesn’t work that way. I am very much afraid that you have built Harvard into this holy grail and whether you obtain admission or not you are setting yourself up for a very steep fall when you realize that it is not all you assumed it was. </p>

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<p>“do I calm down, realize my limitations” </p>

<p>Yes. </p>

<p>You do not have the academic profile to be a competitive HYP athletic recruit (you probably don’t have the athletic profile either), and if you need to make your course load easier in order to get even a C+ average, then you seriously are headed in the wrong direction. </p>

<p>You have a choice – either you can continue to kid yourself (and waste valuable time soliciting and then disputing feedback from posters on CC), in which case you’ll have an email inbox full of terse rejection notes in a few years or you can redirect your energies toward accomplishing a goal that is realistic given your self-professed limitations. </p>

<p>You decide. Either way, you’ve likely exhausted the patience and goodwill of the CC community that has tried time and again to make you take some tough medicine that you refuse to swallow.</p>

<p>Good luck, stop posting and start working.</p>

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<p>Class rigor is only worth it if you are able to get A’s (or B+'s). If you are struggling with the AP level and getting B’s and C’s, then you should move down to College Prep level.</p>

<p>There is no shame in this. Give it your best. Have you considered seeking outside advice on study habits, organization and preparing for tests? This might help more than you think?</p>

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<p>@Paul13375,</p>

<p>“Can I get in with a 2.6 (poster said I can \o/, answered)”</p>

<p>No, you cannot.</p>

<p>The absolute lowest GPA of any admitted freshman in the class of 2018 was 3.4. For the class of 2017, it was 3.3.</p>

<p>A 3.4 or a 3.3 is a B+ average. Those parties likely had great test scores, and were likely recruited athletes.</p>

<p>A 2.6 is a C+. And you add that you’re not good at testing. As well, there is no evidence that you’re very good at football, yet, either.</p>

<p>Between a B+ student and a C+ student is a chasm, an abyss. For admissions to highly-selective schools, there is no bridge over that chasm.</p>

<p>Even if you eventually developed into a Division I prospect, the grades alone will keep you out of Harvard and other Ivies. The grades in addition to less-than-stellar test scores will be the final nail in the coffin.</p>

<p>“Also, I have problems with getting game time, due to potential D1 prospect hogging all of the minutes at my current school,…”</p>

<p>As another poster noted, having another Division I prospect at your school shouldn’t hinder your development and playing time. </p>

<p>Last year, the high school from which my sons graduated sent a dozen students to Division I football programs, including one to an Ivy, and a handful to Division II and III schools. </p>

<p>The coach managed to have them all playing at the varsity of level. In most cases, from sophomore year and on (although one fellow transferred in as a junior, and thus, obviously, wasn’t on the school’s varsity team as a sophomore). By the way, the kid who went Ivy had an overall GPA exceeding 3.8, and took many AP courses successfully.</p>

<p>The only road to an Ivy runs through the path of very high grades. If you can’t accomplish that, you need to rethink your plans.</p>

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<p>^ I like the idea from one poster, to come back January with updated test scores. And I had an 82 average last year unrated, not sure why 2.6 is a C+, when it was infact a B-. And the minimum GPA of 3.3 is quite scary, that means that I will need to get like a 95 in every class, which for me is well, pushing it. </p>

<p>What if I have awesome test scores, and the test scores compared to my terrible GPA equal a 200 and I get in that way? Or is it that if you drop below 3.0, they think you are stupid and auto deny you? I mean if all this hard work will be for nothing, I could just quit on getting into college altogether and work on my career plans. </p>

<p>Gibby said once that minimum GPA is like a 3.0, and a few posters said that 2.6 may cut it if I really show myself in other areas. The confusing thing is that the Ivy League website says that the minimum gpa to get accepted into a program is a 2.0, and I have a 2.6, so I am well in the clear for the minimum. I know that the rest of the applicants have like 7.0+ GPA’s and made Einstein shed a tear at their math skills at age 12, however I am an athlete, so shouldn’t my AI score be the deciding factor? Yes getting high test scores is a given, but if I get that 200+ number, won’t I be safe?</p>

<p>I also don’t want to leave my Honors classes because the teachers here love to teach and love to work with you to improve. One of my teachers was very surprised to see a football player in his class (we were having a debate on why football jocks seem to get the girls/fame and all that, and then the very next day I walked in with a jersey on for our away game :D). He works with me to improve my skills, and the experience that I get in class is of a much more understanding type. My old teachers just slapped on 0’s and treated me like garbage, while these teachers actually help you to learn the material, not sit in their desk flipping PowerPoint slides and sipping a latte. If I move back to CP, I will likely be treated even worse, as I had to actively fight to get into honors class. For those who are wondering you normally need a A+ average and outstanding teacher recommendation in order to join the class, and I joined in with B’s. I managed to find a loophole in school policy, and smacked my demands and forced them to place me in all the classes that I wanted.</p>

<p>Therefor going back to CP is suicide, because teachers will likely just give me bad grades to spite me. I had a girl ask my how I am in 2 AP classes as a sophomore (only me and one other are in 2 AP as sophomore), and I simply told her that I worked hard :D. I know that some of you out there may just be angry at me, and I completely understand. I am talking about getting into arguably the best learning experience in the world, with a 2.6 GPA, while you or your children got in with like a 99 in every class, every single SAT/ACT point correct, and did so many things that DARPA personally asked you to invent stuff for them. I get it, however I have to work hard to, I have to stay up all night because I need to learn these formulas for biology that I swear the Martians wrote, have to study a bunch of history about puritans, and I have to know the constitution so well that the 55 original founders would of sent the entire militia to get me to work with them. It is hard, and I will hopefully be taking the same amount of AP as you guys will be, so we are on the same boat.</p>

<p>Therefore, any thing I could do to help improve my current situation? I know get grades up and football time etc, however anything else that could cause admissions to consider me even though I have the lowest grade in the entire class?</p>

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<p>You asked, we gave our opinions, but you must do what you want. Please come back when you are a senior and tell us where you are going to school.</p>