Remain in AP/Honors and get 2.6 GPA, or go to CP level and get A's

Ohiodad51 · September 25, 2014, 2:36am

Paul, it is encouraging to hear that you are enjoying some of your classes, and that you feel you are getting a better education in this track than the track you were on last year. That is in fact what is important.

Your dilemma is that with a 2.6 gpa in order to hit 200 on the academic index you would need @720’s across the board on your SATs and SAT2s, which is pretty freakin high. Any ad com who sees that kind of gpa with those kind of scores is going to assume that you are not a serious student who screwed around in high school. Even if you somehow convince the ad com that you are a serious student, they will worry that you will be unable to handle the academic load at an elite school. Either way, Harvard is not going to admit you, even if you turn into a D1 caliber player. That is your basic problem.

rhandco · September 25, 2014, 2:40am

OP needs to understand that having the numbers is not a yes, but not having the numbers will be a resounding no answer.

Advice is to start going to national-level football recruiting camps, get ranked nationally at your position, and meanwhile bring all your grades up to As.

notjoe · September 25, 2014, 3:44am

@Paul13375,

Yes, you’re correct - a 2.6 is closer to a B- than a C+. Neither will get you into Harvard.

You can play with the numbers and see that the same AI can be produced with high test scores and low grades, as well as with high grades and low test scores. As others have pointed out, one of these circumstances might get a little lenience from admissions committees. Unfortunately, it isn’t the circumstance in which you find yourself. High grades/low test scores suggest hard working students who test poorly but have some ability. Low grades/high test scores suggest students who don’t put forth the effort to make use of the ability that the test scores reveal. Schools will sometimes live with the first, but not the second.

I’m glad you’re enjoying your honors classes. Then stick with them. You may learn that there are other things in life other than getting into an Ivy.

“I am talking about getting into arguably the best learning experience in the world, with a 2.6 GPA,…”

This is a basic misunderstanding.

For a student with a GPA of 2.6, it is likely that Harvard is not the best learning experience in the world. In fact, it’s likely that Harvard would be among the worst learning experiences for such a student.

Think of climbing mountains. The “best” mountain to climb might be, at least in the minds of many, Mt. Everest, because it’s the highest. But it’s not the best mountain for everyone to climb.

I’m a middle-aged guy who sits behind a desk most of the day. If I were to attempt Everest, it’d probably kill me in short order. Scratch that. I wouldn’t stand a chance against Everest. It would NOT be the best mountain for me to climb. It may be a very great climbing experience for a really, really great climber, but it would be deadly for a guy like me.

Just as Everest is for really great climbers, places like Harvard are for really great students. It can be the best learning experience for those students. Not for students with GPAs of 2.6 in high school.

Paul, you just haven’t shown that you’re a really great student.

By the way, you mention that you’re not getting much playing time. How many games has your team played? Are you playing for the varsity, then? How much time have you played for the varsity?

Heights · September 25, 2014, 3:57pm

Paul,

Time to turn up the temperature, because you are being coddled on this board I think it’s doing you a great disservice.

You remind me of a close childhood friend who, while we were younger, was the consummate ■■■■■■■■ artist. He would get distracted by every shiny object, dream about attaining it but was completely unwilling to put in the necessary effort to do so. He was all about cutting corners and looking for angles. The arc of his life has been predictable, and deeply disappointing. He never worked hard, he never achieved.

Make sure that is not you. Your collective posts on CC are alarming to me. Go back and look at them yourself.

In June 2013 as an 8th grader you first shared your plan for getting into Harvard. It involved writing a few novels and publishing research. How has that been going? My guess is you haven’t written a word, let alone a chapter.

In May 2014 you shared that you were barely passing basic Algebra (69), not to mention a 79 in English and a 73 in Accounting, but that it was all going to get better and we all should tell you that you still had a good shot at Harvard.

In June 2014, having not put in the effort to succeed academically freshman year, it was back to the “I’ll write a book” Hail Mary when you asked the group whether writing a 200-600 page non-fiction research book would do the trick. How’s that project coming?

Later in June 2014 you updated us on your already dismal Freshman year grades to tell us that Accounting now was down to a 69 and that you likely would fail the final, and that Algebra was a 69 and you’d likely fail that final too. You also let us know for the first time that you will be a CEO (with a 69 in Accounting!) or POTUS, and sought once again validation that you’re still on track for Harvard.

Still later in June you finally confessed to us that you simply are not good at school, but the plan now is to be a Tailback at Harvard. Never mind that you’re not even a high school varsity starter. Yes, Harvard is actively seeking students who are not good at school. Please.

Since June, the recruited athlete fantasy seems to have taken firmer root in your mind, perhaps mostly because your poor academic performance has not improved at all sophomore year and you’re now considering bailing from your honors/AP courses (too boot, you want everyone to tell you that will be a good thing for your Harvard prospects). So now the gist of your posts are centered on the Academic Index and Likely Letters. Oh, and sending to coaches who have the pick of top national prospects your JV video footage.

Paul, here’s the cold hard truth. Until you get real and stop ■■■■■■■■■■■■ yourself and all those around you, you’re not going to Harvard, Yale or Princeton, let alone any other four year college of much lesser repute. Forget about Harvard – it ain’t happening. But so what? You don’t need a Harvard degree to attain success and you don’t need Harvard’s financial aid resources to access higher education. What you need most of all is a sustained work ethic, less ■■■■■■■■, and an interest in academics that genuine rather than an angels seeking, cynical path to some pipe dream.

These are harsh words for a young person to hear, but I wish they had been said to my childhood friend. You still have plenty of time. You are not going to Harvard. Stop it already. But there is much you still can achieve. Set some realistic goals and go after them. Start small. You claim to like your honors/AP courses. Great, stick with them. Set your goal as getting at least a B on the midterm. Work your ass off to achieve that. A B won’t get you into into Harvard but it’s a good start on a path to success.

Good luck.

cbw123 · September 25, 2014, 8:36pm

Paul,

You liked the idea of coming back in January with your midterm grades and update on playing time on the field. I am glad you liked my suggestion. I really want to hear how you are doing in January! But in the meantime, from October thru December,
the next 3 months,
YOU NEED TO STOP POSTING HERE AND DO YOUR HW, ok? 
Then come back and tell us, and we can all give you advice on your updated, hopefully, better GPA.

Best,
Charles

Paul13375 · September 26, 2014, 1:30am

^ Agreed cbw, the argument will simply reach a draw as long as my GPA is still low. I ask one last thing before I repost on January, please if you can, read my other posts, and give me some information that I may not know.

Example being on AI and all that recruit info, if I write something that may be incorrect, let me know please.

Thank you

sherpa · September 26, 2014, 3:20pm

Paul,

You’re asking legitimate questions. Many of the posters (including me) want to give you advice, but too often fail to answer your questions directly.

Looking though your threads, it appears you’ve never received a straight answer to one of your most important questions, so I’ll give it my best shot.

Gibby’s claim that there is Ivy League minimum GPA rule is unsupported. When I asked Gibby for a source, he/she couldn’t provide one. I’ve never seen a published minimum GPA for the conference or any of its schools. As far as I know, the only Ivy League academic restrictions for athletic recruits are the AI rules. And you’re right, under the AI formula, high test scores can balance out a low GPA.

I believe that it’s possible for an exceptional athlete to be admitted to an Ivy League college with a lopsided AI score, as long as the AI meets the minimum threshold.

saltydog97 · September 27, 2014, 2:57am

Here is some specific data I found about Harvard admissions, especially concerning GPA. Make sure to scroll down. <a href=“The Harvard Crimson | Class of 2017”>http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html</a>

zenator · September 27, 2014, 12:10pm

Fellow Posters: All you are doing is feeding a ■■■■■, who seems to get his kicks by baiting you into posting “caring” responses.

It is self-evident that a HS sophomore with a 2.6 GPA playing JV football has little to no chance of gaining admission to HYP. In addition to lack of demonstrated academic ability, lack of demonstrated D-1 athletic ability, Paul also fails the character test. What Ivy coach, who wishes to keep his job, is going to use 1 of 3 precious slots on a kid who is not a difference maker on the field and who may well flunk out?

In closing, as the old say goes: “If wishes were horses then beggars would fly.”

Paul13375 · September 27, 2014, 12:57pm

Yawn zenator, you seem to think that this is all a joke. Well the great thing about all of this this is that you are extremely incorrect. First of all coaches want a good player, which you are correct in that I need to become one. Just because that I am in JV does not mean that I am automatically a bad player, just means that I need to show my skills elsewhere. There are many ways, camps, winter and spring programs, being a god in JV etc. Good players who are intelligent are hard to get, and you seem to be stuck with the conventional way of doing things, my friend I can assure you there are more ways that one.

As Sherpa confirmed, none of us can know what the minimum GPA is. We don’t know whether I will get a boost for being in AP/Honor courses for the last next 2 years, or whether the GPA is a major part of admission. There are articles out there that are hitting on Harvard for laxing on admissions for athletes, and some articles that praise Harvard for having the strictest athletic requirements in the country.

Quite honestly, the only minimum GPA requirement that I have found is the NCAA minimum, which is like a 2.0 or 2.1. So technically the absolute minimum that can be accepted is a 2.0, which I am .6 points ahead of right now. Do I need to work more in the classroom and on the field yes, and I know that I can do it, therefore no one can stop me.

It is self evident that a sophomore with 2.6 GPA and JV ability will have a difficult time yes, however if I get into camps, get my grades up and take some AP tests, and smash the ACT/SAT tests home, my entire application changes. One great question that I have I am going to ask.

What is the best camp during winter and spring that I can go to in order to best showcase my RB skill?

Threesdad · September 27, 2014, 2:02pm

@paul13375: You’ve received quite a bit of very solid caring advice from adults who’ve been through the process.

Stop wasting your time posting here and do the following two things:

<ol>
<li>Practice your football skill set.</li>
<li>Do your homework & study</li>
</ol>

By succeeding at 1 & 2 above you’ll perhaps reach your stated goal.

Good Luck.

notjoe · September 27, 2014, 2:07pm

“I have an ace! The ace of spades! With my three of diamonds, my six of hearts, my eight of spades, and my jack of clubs, all I need to do is draw the king, queen, jack, and ten of spades, and I’ll have a royal flush!”

Paul13375 · September 28, 2014, 3:26pm

^ Any jokes aside, do you mean that I need to get a lot of things right in order to get accepted, or are you just mocking me? If it is a joke I am ignoring it, and I ask of you to please contribute something useful to the conversation.

I asked a question about good winter/spring football camps, I will also like to add an additional question.

If my coaches refuse to put me in, and I don’t even get playing time in my high school team, is there a winter/spring football team similar to young kid football that I can join? Because my coaches seem to have favorites, and they place their starters for the entire game, and bench the other players. I need to get highlight film, and it’s difficult with coaches refusing me to get me in.

PSM2013 · September 28, 2014, 4:24pm

Look and see if there is a SPARQ camp near you. They hold those during the winter I think. That will at least give u measurables (speed, etc) that you can show to coaches. I’m not sure if college coaches observe these events, but google Nike SPARQ and you should find it. I know there are AAU football programs starting up so maybe google and see if you can find one that fits and that is in your area. You can also look into FBU. I think you should also talk to your coach and ask him what he thinks you need to work on, if he has any suggestions for off season programs and see what he says. I wouldn’t necessarily tell him the Harvard part yet. Most coaches want to see kids succeed and if a kid approaches with a “how can I get better” mentality - they usually will be pretty open and honest.

I think everyone here on the board wishes you well but I think people are frustrated that you seem to want someone to tell you that a 2.6 is possible at Harvard. If you are so inclined you should google Common Data Set Harvard and you will see the admission info for entering freshmen. The most recent common data set shows that approx 75% of all incoming students had 700+ on SATs and less than 3% had lower than 600. The same CDS shows that 92% had GPAs of 3.75 or higher, less than 1% had 3.0-3.24 and no attending students had under 3.0. The CDS show scores for admitted students (athletes and non athletes) that chose to attend Harvard, so in theory a 2.6 gpa could have been accepted and gone elsewhere.

I know a handful of football recruits who garnered some ivy interest and from what I have gathered from their parents, any spots for low GPA/SAT score students are used for game changers - the kid that is also being heavily recruited by the top D1 football programs (Florida State, Alabama, Oregon). If you were that level of talent you would know by now and you’d be playing on your HS team (unless your coach likes to lose or is a complete idiot).

I know kids with strong grades and SAT scores who were all league varsity players as sophomores who ended up not playing at an Ivy. There are thousands of 2017 RBs who want to play for Harvard - most of whom will have better academic and athletic resumes than you currently do. I’m not saying they are smarter or better athletes than you are - they are just a proven commodity - right now you are a gamble.

So, can anyone on this Board say with 100% certainty that you won’t get a LL from Harvard with a 2.6-3.0 GPA? No. Similarly, no one can tell me that I won’t be the next SI swimsuit issue cover model even though I’m 50 and 30 lbs overweight. Neither is technically impossible, but it is so remarkably unlikely that we would both be silly to have our hearts set on it.

Shoot for your dream. But have a solid backup plan. First step is to get your grades up, immediately.

twoinanddone · September 28, 2014, 4:44pm

There are no winter football leagues for high school kids that I know of. You need to ask your coaches if there are any in your area.

You need to speak to your coaches about your desires and your need for film. They might be able to work with you, put you in in situations where your team is way ahead or for a specialty play. But you need to be realistic too. You are not a top player. If you were the coach, would you put you in? You can really want to be a football player, but are you doing everything you can? Are you showing up for extra weight lifting sessions? Are you running an extra mile every day? Are you studying the playbook, know every play by heart?

My daughter is playing her sport in college. They have conditioning and practice every morning from 6-8, then class, then studying, but she finds time to go to the wall, to spend an hour or more each day working on her stick skills. You have to practice, not just complain that the coach plays the favorites. My daughter wasn’t a favorite in high school or on her club team even though she did work hard. Other kids won the awards. The other day the coach gave her a big compliment and said to her “I didn’t expect this from you; I didn’t think you’d work this hard or be this good” because my daughter does just work hard and doesn’t whine about playing time or honors.

Many of the camps and tournaments my daughter played in during the summer offered film options. The showcases she went to finally just filmed all the games and make them available to coaches and recruiters, so the student just needs to tell the coach which games, at what time, and on what field the game was on, plus her number and other identifying things (hair color, stick color, position).

rhandco · September 28, 2014, 7:49pm

You should look at the top ranked ESPN football players, and see what camps and combines they went to.

There is a kid who is ranked #2 in our state, and he has been going to camps and combines since 8th grade.

Filming can cost a lot of money as can camps. If you have the money, definitely go for it.

notjoe · September 28, 2014, 8:20pm

@Paul13375,

I am adding a useful contribution to the conversation. A much more useful contribution than anything that encourages you to believe that on your current path, you’re a viable Ivy applicant.

My post makes the point that there are some things that are theoretically possible that are nonetheless not going to happen. With one card out of five in hand, drawing four cards to achieve a royal flush is mathematically possible. But it’s not really a winning poker strategy.

That is a useful contribution to the conversation.

As an athlete, you need three things to get into Harvard, or any most-selective, Division I school:

<ul>
<li>Very good grades;</li>
<li>Very good test scores;</li>
<li>Outstanding athletic ability.</li>
</ul>

These can vary in relationship to each other. Thus, less-than-stellar grades could be balanced to some degree by great test scores and astounding athletic accomplishment. Merely above-average test scores could be balanced by great grades and top-of-the-class athletic ability. Being merely very, very, very good at the sport could be balanced off by top grades and test scores.

But you already have less-than-adequate grades. You say yourself you don’t test well. And you’re playing JV ball.

Hope is not a plan.

Heights · September 28, 2014, 8:21pm

The running backs on Harvard’s current roster. Cold dose of reality I’m afraid.

Blade Brady – Three-time captain, four-year letterwinner in football at Sierra Canyon … Named CIF-SS Student Athlete of the Year as a senior … In 2012, named Defensive MVP … All-CIF selection in 2012 … Three-time All-League selection … Iron Man Award Recipient as a junior … Pat Tillman Award recipient in 2010 …Leading rusher as a sophomore and junior … Paced Sierra Canyon’s defense as a senior as leading tackler … Four-time recipient of Head of School Award … Member of National Honor Society and Cum Laude Society.

Andrew Casten – Three-sport captain in football, basketball and track & field … Three-year letterwinner and two-year starter in football as a running back, defensive back and kicker/punter … Rushed for 1,452 yards on 204 carries (7.1 ypc) and 28 touchdowns as a senior … Led the Shore Conference in points scored with 196 on 28 touchdowns, 22 extra points and four two-point conversions … Two-time first team all-division … Two-time first team All-Shore Conference running back and second team all-state as a senior … National Honor Society … President of the student council.

Dominick DeLucia – Two-year captain … Four-year letterwinner in football at Pittsford Mendon where he started at tailback for three seasons … Named Rochester Democrat & Chronicle All-Great Rochester Player of the Year as a senior … Two-time first team running back … New York State Stportswriters Association All-State running back second team selection as a senior and third team selection as a junior … Set Pittsford Mendon’s record for single seasong rushing yards (2,312) and touchdowns (26) as a senior … Ranked 21st in the country and second in New York State in rushing yards per game … Carried 45 times to help Pittsford Mendon break New York’s first-place team 17 game winning streak … Two-time section finalist … Holds New York State’s section 5 record for most 300-plus rushing guames in a season … Appeared in the 2012 All Star Game, he captained the east team for the game and was named the offensive Most Valuable Player … Class Valedictorian … Named Pittsford Mendon Male Scholar-Athlete of the Year and National Football Foundation Rochester Chapter Scholard Athlete of the Year as a senior … Recipient of the Department for the Army Scholar Athlete Award and the Salvatore Scholarship … Member of Order Sons of Italy in America and student government for four years.

Anthony Firsker – One-year captain, three-year letterwinner in football at Manalpan where he played wide receiver … Named All-Shore Offensive Player of teh Year as a senior … In 2012 named to the All-State Group V, All-Monmouth first team and all-state second team … Two-time All-Shore first team selection … Named to the All-Division first team as a junior … Holds Manalapan’s records in receiving years (2,118), receptions (110) and touchdown receptions (19) … Also a two-time captain, four-year letterwinner in basketball … Two-time member of the All-Division first team and All-Shore second team as a point guard… Member of Manalapan’s 1,000-point club … member of the National Honor Society and Peer Leadership … His brother, Josh, played football at Wagner College.

Chris Robinson – three-year letterwinner, team captain as a senior … Named 2013 Offensive MVP … Ram Tough Award recipient … Named second team All-District running back … All-District Academic Team selection … Three- year National Honor Society Member and one-year Sergeant at Arms within it … Member of the Key Club, Music Society, and Leaders of Tomorrow club at Cypress Ridge.

Semmar Smith – Three-year letterwinner, team captain as a senior … Helped Broward Prep to the District Championship in 2012 … Three-time Sun Sentinel Second Team All-County football team selection … Three-time Miami Herald Second Team All-County football selection… Named Scholar Athlete of the Month … Brother, Seitu II, ’15, also plays football at Harvard.

Heights · September 28, 2014, 8:46pm

Paul,

Which of the players above do you suppose had a 2.6 GPA and was a JV player through Sophomore year?

Blade, the three time All League selection and National Society Member?

Or was it Andrew, the three sport captain, National Honor Society member and student body president?

Or was it Dominick, the two year captain and class valedictorian?

Or was it Anthony, the National Honor Society member and team captain.

Or perhaps Chris, the three year National Honor Society member and team captain?

Or maybe Semmar, the team captain and all county RB in southern Florida?

Somewhere along the way someone did you a great disservice by suggesting that there was a backdoor you could enter at Harvard without being a truly extraordinary student and athlete. There is not.

Someday you may prove yourself to be an extraordinary student and an extraordinary athlete. So far you’ve done nothing to show that. You know that.

Stop the nonsense, buckle down, get your grades up, cram like heck for the SAT/ACT, work on your football skills, earn the respect of your coaches, and get some varsity playing time.

Until you’ve accomplished all that, get off CC, get off Facebook and Instagram, and stop fantasizing about schools you have no realistic shot of attending based on your current record.

The first step toward proving me, and the rest of us wrong, will not be by posting a rebuttal on CC. Prove it in the classroom and on the field. The rest will follow.

Falcon1 · September 29, 2014, 2:44am

I think everyone can stop replying to this kid now. He’s sucked well-meaning parents and students into LONG discussions about his grandiose plans to attend Harvard in other threads that he’s started. In the Harvard forum, he also wrote incessantly about his plan to become a mega-billionaire and later POTUS. He has issues, let’s leave it at that.

He has terrible grades and sits on the bench for JV football. What more needs to be said?

Remain in AP/Honors and get 2.6 GPA, or go to CP level and get A's

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