<p>I also want to mention that neither of my kids thought we were being overprotective by caring about their activities while driving at night. This may be due to the very tragic accidents of two students at their high school, neither of which involved drinking. Just being tired or being distracted by others in the car can be the cause of tragedy for young, inexperienced drivers.</p>
<p>Yes, and there have been similar tragic events here in our city too, on the very highway that he often drives on.</p>
<p>“I mean, it’s silly, but now my daughter is at college and if I talk to her and she is out late at night, I always ask her to call me when she gets back to her dorm room to let me know she’s arrived safely… but I can easily go days without talking to her and I have no clue what time she is getting to her room on those nights. If I don’t know, it doesn’t matter and it doesn’t occur to me to worry… but if I do know… then I start to worry, so I ask her to call.”</p>
<p>Exactly! He thinks it’s ‘silly’ for me to wait up and doesn’t understand maternal instinct.</p>
<p>When he spent 4 nights at the Honors Colloquium this past summer, I didn’t worry at all and did not expect him to report in. I knew he was with other people. I think him being ALONE driving on highways late at night is the biggest issue.</p>
<p>I might graduate to going to sleep, but I will always leave my cell phone on. I turn the ringer off the house phone, but I need to know that he can reach me. Very few people have my cell phone # (we use them mostly just for family) so if the cell phone rings, I know it’s him.</p>
<p>You can externalize this somewhat by explaining to your son that you have concerns about him being out on the roads that late due to others. This isn’t just about trusting ‘him’ or not - it has to do with the environment at that time of night. This includes drunk drivers, what can happen if the car breaks down, the fact that more hijinks tend to happen later at night, etc.</p>
<p>I think no matter what restrictions are placed on our kids they can always come back with “so and so doesn’t have to do that” or “everyone else gets to do that”, etc. There’s even some truth in this (but not the ‘everyone’ part) because some parents impose no restrictions on their kids whatsoever. It’s ‘me’ however who’s raising my kids - not the other parents. It’s up to ‘me’ to make what I feel are the best judgments for the welfare of my kids.</p>
<p>Well there have been some mixed responses (as expected) but I feel much better knowing I am not the only mom who feels this way. Thanks to everyone!</p>
<p>Lealdragon: My DS (now in college) was in HS much like your DS…I know (despite the skepticism of people who don’t know me or my DS) that he didn’t/doesn’t drink or do drugs; he does communicate w/me (still)…and, like you, it felt to me like I “should” stay up til he got home (this past summer, between his first & second years in college, is the first sign of that changing)…</p>
<p>Anyway, we accidentally hit on a compromise that may help you: one night, while waiting up for him (and well before his “be at home by” time (we hate the word curfew!), I fell asleep on the couch (we have a big, overstuffed sectional that’s almost better than our beds)…he came in; put a blanket on me; turned off the lights & tv & computer–I never stirred…I woke up at 3 a.m. and could tell he was home by the fact that I was still on the couch but all the “stuff” was off (lights, tv, computer)…I knew I hadn’t turned it all off!</p>
<p>Since then, that was “the procedure”…I went to sleep as soon as I got sleepy–on the couch! Sometimes I awakened when he got home; sometimes I didn’t…but it took the anxiety out of “waiting up” for him…it also allowed us to set/agree on a “be home by” time w/out having to factor in the fact that he’s a night owl and I’m a morning person!</p>
<p>Hope this (or something like it) might work for you…</p>
<p>I do not think you are being overprotective. That is just who you are. My mom was the same way, unable to get to sleep until me and my brothers were home.</p>
<p>The fact that you are asking the question indicates to me that you are not over protective at all.</p>
<p>I stayed up for our oldest, a boy who is now a sophomore in college. I think you are doing fine and well within what is reasonable.</p>
<p>I would have a problem, though, with the fact that he “often” gets home 30-60 minutes late. It is good of him to call you, but at some point, IMO, the frequent requests to stay out later than curfew start to make a mockery out of the curfew. I don’t know if you would agree with me, or if you are at that point, but I would view this “often” being late as being particularly inconsiderate in your case since it literally affects your sleep in a very significant way.</p>
<p>It does not matter what other parents may be doing. You set the policies in your house, and IMO your policies are reasonable. Just because 18yos think they are mature and responsible doesn’t mean that parents have to accept or defer to that assessment. IMO, stick to your guns!</p>
<p>one option that might help you get more sleep is to set an alarm clock for his curfew time (or a few minutes after) and tell him he has to turn it off when he gets home. then you can go to sleep whenever you want, and if he stays out too late you’ll get woken up! for this plan it’s probably good that he’s an only child, because he won’t be able to convince a sibling to go in and turn off the clock for him!</p>
<p>I also agree that you’re not being too overprotective of a HS student still living at home. If anything, we were somewhat more <em>strict</em> (I dislike that word, really, since it’s not how I think I come across!) than you outline. For example, getting home at 11:30 on a weeknight was something that happened only rarely, ie if there were a rehearsal, study group, special activity or something like that. </p>
<p>I also had no wish for S to be driving around town in the early morning hours with all the tired and drunk people on the road. For weekends, the time he was expected to be home could vary depending on how close to home he was (and got a little later toward the end of the year for sure) , but was rarely past 1 AM in any case. </p>
<p>I also do not think it’s wrong to explain that in your case it’s also a matter of consideration to you, out of respect for your sleep habits, although, really, you don’t need to make ongoing excuses for yourself. IMO, you’re entitled to set the ground rules in your own house. </p>
<p>Matter of fact, we were not the “strictest” of S’s friend’s parents, for which I was thankful. Sure, there were also more permissive parents, but we weren’t considered to be somewhere in outer space on the range of normal parental behavior by our kids either, as this thread (and the earlier one) demonstrates. As others have mentioned, we always wanted to know where the kids would be and if they left to go anywhere else. And we always wanted to know that parents would be at home. </p>
<p>We’re going through the same thing again now with 16 yo D, but in her case, the kids tend to do Sat. evening sleepovers. The parents appreciate not having to go out to pick up late at night, and the kids get to hang out in a safe and supervised setting.</p>
<p>Roshke, the Sat. sleepovers were common in our area too. Somehow our house was usually designated. My kids also were rarely out past about midnight unless it was a very special occasion --prom, coming back from an event, etc. It was nice to do the sleepovers as the kids could stay up late and watch movies, play pool or video games and not be driving home late. If my son stayed out I usually checked with parents beforehand, if not before he always knew I would touch base later on Sat. to thank them (that kinda removed any temptation to say he was one place and be another!)
Not that I ever had reason to think he would do that —more that I remember MY teenage years;).</p>
<p>We’ve used every variation of curfew. We stayed up for our older son–or we had him wake us when he got in. In retrospect, he was more of a worry, more impressionable than our younger son, more inclined to follow peers. However, I found that when he woke us, I was unable to regain conciousness quickly; ie I couldn’t read the clock and had NO idea what time he got in 
.</p>
<p>Once S1 left for Gap Year at age 17, we relaxed considerably, having learned how to put him in a mental compartment of assumed safety. Now, when he is home a few weeks a year, he comes in at very wee hours. I do miss those late night chats but I have found other ways to get those in (nice leisurely meals). </p>
<p>Our younger son is safer when he has the car because he doesn’t drink when he drives (breathalized three times in one year already). I probably rest easier when he has the car, in fact. Recently we lifted his weekend curfew completely after discovering that he was telling the truth when he said that none of his friends had any curfew for the past year. Prior to that, he had a 1 am curfew and I would call him if I woke up and discovered he was late. Or I might call him at 12:30 am to remind him to get going. </p>
<p>Nothing constructive happens after 1 am but I have let him face that fact on his own for the past few months. Even though he doesn’t technically have a curfew, I have made it clear that I would prefer that he get home by 2 am if he goes out. He usually complies.</p>
<p>Another reason I rest easier with him is because he has a great set of friends. After abstaining from drinking games for a year, he decided to play a drinking game at a party–because he thought the clear liquor (vodka) would be easier to tolerate than beer. (Classic 17 year old boy thinking IMO). He was on our doorstep by 8:30 pm, sicker than a dog, and escorted by four sober friends whom he had asked to bring him home. Those boys were nonplussed and very courteous. I know he would do the same for them too.</p>
<p>He was howling the next day when he had many many hours of manual labour as punishment. He claimed he had made SOOO many good decisions.</p>
<p>I’ve always been very grateful that my mother never set a specific time that I <em>had</em> to be home. She basically had me call in at about 11 to let her know what I was doing and when I planned on coming home, and then I would wake her up/greet her when I got home (she would stay awake all of the time, unless I came home after 1 or 2). I’m not one to go out every night, so I guess I got a little more leeway due to that. </p>
<p>I agree that the driving issue is a big one, as I can remember when I first started driving pretty vividly and I really was not as perceptive as I am now. The main thing was that I had to think about how to react to a situation, while now I already know what to do, as I know the limitations of my car a lot better and pay better attention to the surrounding vehicles without even realizing it.</p>
<p>I’m a student. </p>
<p>In my state, you can’t drive after midnight if you’re under eighteen, so that was basically my curfew. My mother would sometimes tell me to try to be home by 11, or to call if I would be after 11:30. If I was going to be after 11:00, I usually called. When I got home the kitchen light would be on and there would be a note for me to go wake her up and say goodnight. </p>
<p>It worked fine for me, but then again everyone pretty much had to be home by midnight because of the driving laws.</p>
<p>"I’m just trying to figure out if I am being unreasonable to expect him home at a time that is early enough for me to wait up for him and still get a good night’s sleep. "</p>
<p>I think that you’re being unreasonable in making your sleeping problem his problem.</p>
<p>If his hours were interferring with his high school work or his household responsibilities or if he were leaving and giving you no idea when he’d return, or if he were doing things like coming home drunk, I’d say you would be right to be setting a curfew for him to return while you were still up to check on his condition. However, your son is 18 and seems very responsible, and I don’t think its’s fair to hold him responsible for your inability to sleep when he’s out.</p>
<p>Your being awake doesn’t make him any safer: It just makes you stressed and tired.</p>
<p>I stay awake. not by choice,…just with two teen girls, I am awake…when my H is out, I stay awake, if my mom is out, I stay awake…and if I do drift off, we have three dogs who feel any movement is cause to alarm the house…i am just awake…I don’t sleep well camping either</p>
<p>Both girls come upstairs and kiss me goodnight…we don’t have a formal curfew, we play each night as they come…weeknights they are home, as most of their friends either live far away or their parents don’t want them out on school nights…so many of the kids in my girls circle of friends are in…and weekends, they are to call by 10pm let me know what is up, and I say, if you are out later than 1130, you must call again…we haven’t had any issues, and they don’t mind me being awake…more often thannot, they come home at about 10pm with friends to hang out and watch movies and parents pickup by midnight at our house…we love being the go-to house</p>
<p>You’re not being “overprotective.”
You’re being human.</p>
<p>practical advice</p>
<ol>
<li><p>do anything to convince him or make sure he owns a heavier vehicle, in other words one at least 4000 lbs such as a Ford Explorer, or larger - no one’s life is worth the extra 1000 dollars a year saved in gas with lightweight vehicles.</p></li>
<li><p>make sure he ALWAYs wears seatbelts</p></li>
<li><p>he apparently doesn’t drink or use drugs - so that’s done</p></li>
<li><p>convince him that an honorable person doesn’t speed or tailgate -and doing so puts other innocents at risk</p></li>
</ol>
<p>These 4 things improve the odds by about 99% and that is the best any parent can do, and I know dozens of cases where these rules were violated with very bad outcomes</p>
<p>“…I would have a problem, though, with the fact that he “often” gets home 30-60 minutes late. It is good of him to call you, but at some point, IMO, the frequent requests to stay out later than curfew start to make a mockery out of the curfew. I don’t know if you would agree with me, or if you are at that point, but I would view this “often” being late as being particularly inconsiderate in your case since it literally affects your sleep in a very significant way…”</p>
<p>Yes, you are correct that the getting home even a ‘little bit’ late is bothering me. I get angry because I think it’s inconsiderate. Like, last night he called me to tell me he’d be late because he was stopping to get something to eat before taking his girlfriend home. It was good that he called, but when he got home I chastised him for not going to eat earlier. It seemed so needless.</p>
<p>I suspect that the getting home late may be a subconscious effort to exert some independence. A bit of rebeling. The thing is, that this kid has always been such an exemplary kid, that I am hesitant to make a really big deal out of him being a half-hour or 45 minutes late. We’ve never really been real strict on rules because he never really required that. We’ve always just given him our reasons and generally if he understand our reasons, he is pretty cooperative.</p>
<p>Me getting mad because he is late is probably causing more problems than it’s worth. If I don’t make a big deal about it I don’t really think he would abuse it and start coming home later and later. But, as I said, he is really very responsible on everything except getting enough sleep.</p>
<p>I think you are right, though, that if we’re going to have a curfew then we should enforce it. The only way to really enforce it is the driving privileges. At least I have something I can use as leverage!</p>
<p>Good advice, Citation! We have all those covered, except we have regular-sized cars. I told him if he gets scholarships we’ll help him get a car, and he started talking about a tiny sporty car and I said NO WAY!</p>
<p>It didn’t help when our mechanic said that small sporty cars are actually safer in some ways because they are more maneuverable. Well, my hubby still has his old Triumph (a tiny 2-seater convertible) in the garage. So my son got the bright idea of getting it running for a lot cheaper than it would cost to buy another car. This was my hubby’s first car when he was 16. Thankfully hubby agreed that he didn’t want our son driving it. If I’m pitching in on the car I will definitely put my foot down on what kind of car! Anyway my son says he will do some research to see what the statistics say on small sports cars vs larger cars, or on certain makes of cars. Any idea where we might find such info?</p>
<p>Awhile back, my son was with some friends and the driver hit 90+ mph. My son got ****ed and told him to slow down immediately. The ‘friend’ shrugged and complied. My son decided on his own that he will no longer ride with him. I was very proud of him for that.</p>
<p>Not a parent, but my thoughts:</p>
<p>I’m trying to translate from small town (where I grew up) to big city. I always let my parents know where I was going (ex. picking up Amy, going over to Rachel’s house for lit mag meeting, dropping off Amy, maybe getting ice cream with her). I was never more than about two miles away from home, and Zeus played softball with about half of the policemen, so he would have heard if something went wrong. (Random story: my sis actually got out of a speeding ticket because the officer realized that she was my dad’s kid. So he pulls her over, asks for license and registration, looks at the address, and says, “Tell your dad that I say hi and don’t do it again.” So she tells him, gets 1) laughed at and 2) reamed out (mildly) for speeding.)</p>
<p>For longer trips, I was expected to call when I left (this was before the cell phone era) - ex. down to Cape Cod, call when leaving, give ETA, and tell them the route. </p>
<p>When I was learning to drive, I was taught to drive very defensively. I had it drilled into my head that it’s not me that will kill me, it’s the other idiot on the road. So when my parents get worried and want to know where I am, I never heard them saying that they did not trust me; I heard them saying that they didn’t trust other drivers. </p>
<p>I’ve often said that you can’t change a lifetime of habits in a few days or weeks or months; if the message throughout life is that the adult, responsible thing to do is to check in; and that I am trustworthy but there are a host of things that can go wrong and my parents would like to know about it, then there was nothing to rebel against. I did not think that the rules were unreasonable, because the rationale behind the rules was integrated throughout my upbringing. </p>
<p>Sure, I was sometimes out late and didn’t check in (but my parents went to sleep at 9 pm and this was before the cell phones). I was also kind of like - well, there’s a three-mile route that I could be on, most likely I’m sitting in the car, in front of my friends house, chatting. </p>
<p>Anyway…</p>
<p>For heaven’s sake, please ignore the people who tell you that you are overprotective! They will hardly be around to pick up the pieces of any disaster that may happen, so they don’t get a say. :p</p>
<p>To suggest something ridiculously obvious - why not call if you are worried? Obviously, you don’t want to make a habit out of reversing responsibility onto yourself, from your son, but it is something to consider as a once or twice option. </p>
<p>I do not doubt that mothers tend to worry about their kid’s safety. Hera can tell, from thousands of miles away, when I am hurt. There’s a phone call, almost immediately. (OTOH, Zeus knows when something is emotionally wrong - he is very intuitive - and will call to check up on me.) It is a natural thing that your son will hate, rebel against, and cuss out until he has kids and his own wife waits up for them from infancy until college (at which point, he’ll be praising that Mom instict to the skies, because he’ll be sleeping while she’s feeding the baby ). </p>
<p>Considering that your son is a new driver, I do not think that you are being overprotective. I didn’t do late-night city driving on a regular basis until I had had my driver’s license for about two years. A fatigued driver is worse than a drunk driver (again, I had heard this all my life; Zeus fell asleep at the wheel in the early 80s, wrecked the car, wrecked a friendship with the friend in the car who was badly hurt, and has since preached the evils of driving tired). It’s smart of you. Half of all new drivers get into an accident during their first year. </p>
<p>Explaining your reasoning will get you a lot further than anything else. Explaining as well that driving privileges are, like anything else, contingent upon good behaviour will help. Tie his responsibilities and privileges very closely to his behaviour; if he comes home more than, say, 15 minutes late, then he has an extra chore or an earlier curfew for the weekend. If he adheres to his curfew (absent extenuating circumstances - flat tire, accident, flood, alien kidnapping) for a certain amount of time AND does some extra city driving with you (if you think he needs more practice), then he can get a later curfew on certain nights. As there is a fatigue concern (and it sounds like the gf lives far away, so it’s not like he has too many options re: staying close to home), you could talk to him about having a certain amount of sleep the night before if he wants to stay out beyond 1 am. Your concerns about his safety (which is the root cause of staying up), his actions (obeying or disobeying curfew; calling or not), and the rules should all work together in a seamless manner.</p>
<p>As senior year progresses, you can loosen the rules; when he is in the summer between high school and college, you can consider starting to ease him into a college-like environment.</p>