Restaurants as playgrounds

Parent Cafe
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<p>My sweet well behaved kid falls into lots of categories where people assume he should be poorly behaved. He attended daycare from 5 months, he’s conspicuously adopted, he’s an only child, and he’s a boy with a single mom. He’s also got a parent who doesn’t yell, almost never punishes (I did put him in time out 3 or 4 times when he was small, and once we left a store because of a tantrum, but I can’t remember imposing an artificial consequence on him in the past 7 years), and we have a very laid back household in terms of rules and expectations. According to the stereotypes he should be a nightmare, and yet I get frequent feedback on his wonderful behavior, from the parents of his friends, from his teachers, and from random people in public. </p>

<p>One thing I notice, is that people who parent differently than I do notice my kid’s behavior always seem to make one of two assumptions about my parenting. One is that they assume that I parent a lot like they do (e.g. I must not have taken my child to Chucky Cheese, or I probably stay home with him, or I bet she enforces those expectations with spanking or time out) and the other is that they assume that there is something going on that counteracts these forces that should be tearing him apart (e.g. he must have attended some kind of “super” daycare, or he’s got some unidentified amazing role model, or his birthmother must have amazing genes). In short, my child can’t possibly be evidence that their way isn’t the right way. In addition, when their own children misbehave, it’s somehow taken as evidence that their way is right as well, either because they’d be worse, or because there’s some factor that explains why he’s misbehaving (he’s tired, he’s testing the limits, he’s hungry) other than their own parenting.</p>

<p>To be clear, I’m not saying that my child’s behavior is caused by my perfect parenting. I’d say it’s mostly temperament, combined with the fact that he’s been lucky enough to have a stable upbringing without any major trauma, and the fact I haven’t done anything that majorly screwed him up (e.g. child abuse, not time out).</p>

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<p>Curiousjane, you make a great point about temperament. I have one who is easygoing and gentle and one who is, umm, not. Child one never needed to be parented in terms of acting up in public, while child two needed parental intervention in learning how to conduct herself in situations that might not have been of her choosing. We only had one incident of kid acting like an animal in a restaurant and it was hideous. Coincidentally, it was the day of the first World Trade Center bombing. Kid was just short of 2 and literally standing in the table screaming. We took her out and within a short time, hubby and D were violently ill from what we think might have been food poisoning from lunch. You can tell that was a miserable memory, right?</p>

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<p>Zoosermom, I’m sure we all have at least one nightmare-ish memory. I still can’t walk by an airplane lavatory without breaking out into a cold sweat.</p>

<p>The differences are 1) We recognized at the time how badly things were going down and 2) It’s a memory precisely because it was so unusual. We didn’t ignore it and let everyone around us suffer the consequences.</p>

<p>My grandparents tell the story of my dad as a preschooler at a family-style restaurant. He took a basket of tomatoes and began throwing them up against the wall. He says he just wanted to see them splat on the unadorned, white wall.</p>

<p>My grandfather took him outside and put him back onto the path of law and order. My dad grew up to be a cop but his parents always cringed when looking back on the tomato delinquency episode.</p>

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<p>I agree that there is more than one model of successful parenting but the “bones” of it are the same.</p>

<p>Romani, there is a difference between authoritarian parenting and authoritative parenting. Screaming at your children is not only inappropriate but ineffective, as well. “Punishing” children should involve allowing them to experience the logical consequences of their actions. Someone upthread said that if their children couldn’t behave in public, then they couldn’t go out in public. That makes sense. It’s the logical consequences of the actions. Children need to have a healthy respect for their parents ability to alter their world in a way that may be unpleasant. That is “authoritative” parenting. Granted some children need more intervention than others (I should know!) but the premise should stay the same.</p>

<p>As far as restaurants go, I teach over 600 kids per week, ages 5-11. The last thing I want when I go out is to be seated next to some at a restaurant, especially when they won’t behave and the parents are hell bent on having an “adult” evening despite the presence of their offspring. Do everyone a favor and bring them to Chiles! It’s the fair thing to do, especially for the kids themselves.</p>

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<p>EPTR, I was just using the other extreme. That’s all.</p>

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<p>Tomato delinquency episode!!! That is priceless!</p>

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<p>I know, Romani. I didn’t think that you were equating screaming parents with parents who discipline appropriately. It’s just that some people think that there are two poles of parenting; the “permissive/I don’t want to crush my child’s spirit/ everything he does is super awesome” and the “screaming/threatening/do what I say even if it makes no sense” parenting styles. </p>

<p>Neither of those works well with most kids. One of my kids spent A LOT of time being grounded when she was a teen. The reasoning was that if she couldn’t go out without making bad decisions, then she couldn’t go out. Period. It took a while for cause and effect to sink in but it did, eventually.</p>

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<p>^actually, in a lot of cases, those poles occur in the same family. I think we’ve all seen the ignore, ignore, ignore, then blow to pieces parental response. I feel so sorry for those kids, because they’re getting such mixed messages.</p>

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<p>My kids were generally well behaved in restaurants and while shopping as children. They are adults who are shy and are awkward in adult settings. I have a neice who was an absolute terror in restaurants and ran away from you while shopping and hid in the clothes. She’s grown into a lovely teenager who all adults love and is really going places. At least that’s what her parents tell me :wink: (about mine and their children lol)</p>

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<p>These were your employees? I’m horrified.</p>

<p>As a young/entry-level employee, I always want to be the person drinking the least at any work-related function. Even if I wasn’t, I never want to drink enough to lose control of myself at anything work-related. I’m small, so that’s one drink, maybe two if it’s a long evening.</p>

<p>I had my first co-op job in college at a big company. I heard a story from before I was there, that they put the HR co-ops in charge of handing out drink tickets at the holiday party. They took a bunch of drink tickets for themselves and their friends. Some of them were underage and all of them got very drunk. When I was there, co-ops were no longer allowed to attend the holiday party at all.</p>

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<p>The problem with looking at your kid’s misbehavior as a one time thing, and other people’s children’s misbehaviors as indicative of their parenting, is that you don’t know the whole story of a family’s situation.</p>

<p>When my son was 3 he had surgery on his stomach. It wasn’t major surgery, just in and out, but because it involved general anaesthesia, and intubating a kid with a history of airway and lung issues, it was still pretty stressful to me as a mom. </p>

<p>The day of the surgery we got up at 5, so we could be checked in 2 hours in advance for an 8 a.m. surgery, but when we got there things got pushed back several hours. I finally left the hospital at 4 p.m. with a preschooler who was high as a kite from the anaesthesia they’d given him during the surgery, and who hadn’t eaten since the night before. We had a a prescription for pain meds and instructions to keep him quiet and make sure that he had nothing other than clear fluids until we were home. We hopped in a cab and headed to the drugstore.</p>

<p>That prescription took 2 hours to fill. CVS didn’t have the initial med, and the nice pharmacist spent a very long time on the phone trying to either find it at a nearby pharmacy or to get one of my son’s doctors to order something different.</p>

<p>During those 2 hours, my normally compliant kid began to fray. He desperately wanted to get up and run off the meds coursing through his body, and of course I desperately wanted to keep him still. On top of that he was starving, and confused as to why I wouldn’t let him eat. I was exhausted, from getting up at 5, and just the stress of the day. Normally, had my child gone crazy in the store I would have left, but that wasn’t an option because I needed to be there to problem solving finding the medication, or strapped him in the stroller, but that wasn’t an option either as the seat belt hit right on top of his stitches. There were probably other options, but I’m not the best problem solver when I’m tired, so we spent the time with me picking him up until he wiggled and whined so much that I’d put him down, and which point he’d bolt, I’d chase him down, rinse and repeat.</p>

<p>Somewhere during those 2 hours, I bought my son a bottle of Sprite. I knew he’d drink it and figured it was the most effective way to get calories into him in “clear liquid” form. Another mother walking by saw nothing but a disheveled mother handing a soda to a whiny misbehaving kid. She rolled her eyes and made a comment to the effect that “no wonder he was behaving that way”. . . </p>

<p>I’m not saying that I don’t get annoyed when I’m in a restaurant or an airplane and there’s a kid acting up. I’ll also admit to thinking that I wish another parent would do something different than what they’re doing, but I’ll always be aware that I’m seeing a snapshot, and that there’s a whole lot I may be missing.</p>

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<p>thanks CuriousJane, such a good reminder for all of us. </p>

<p>along those lines, I was at the supermarket checking out a kiosk DVD, when an attractive young woman weighed herself on one of those huge scales they keep next to the kiosk in the lobby. She looked so pleased and shouted yes! and we smiled as she looked my way. I incorrectly figured she was trying to lose weight, (she was probably a size 4) but she shared that she had been going through treatment for cancer, and was thrilled to have finally gained a pound, after losing weight for months.</p>

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<p>* I have a neice who was an absolute terror in restaurants and ran away from you while shopping and hid in the clothes. *</p>

<p>She is very poised now, though, dont you think? ;)</p>

<p>Omg. I had to leave so many grocery carts at checkout because she was screaming and I would take her on errands and as soon as the dressing room door shut and my clothes were off, she had scooted underneath the door and was hiding in the rounders.:eek:</p>

<p>She has sensory issues and it was really easy for her to get overwhelmed. unfortunately dad worked swing shift, so I couldn’t leave her at home. She wouldn’t stay in a stroller or hold my hand, so I used a leash that went around her wrist and mine. It worked fairly well as it gave her freedom without the physical touch of my hand, but it also seemed to irk others who felt it was lazy parenting and that it was their duty to tell me so.</p>

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<p>I bought a harness for D when we went to Disneyland. She was about three and I was terrified she’d suddenly bolt and we’d be unable to find her, as she would sometimes do that when we shopped. Fortunately she was content to stick close to me so it wasn’t needed but I was glad to have it available, just in case.</p>

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<p>Ask any gynecologist about patients who bring their preschoolers and toddlers into the exam room.</p>

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<p>^^Ask any accountant the same thing. Or Dentist. Or probably any professional of any kind. They either leave the child in the waiting room running around disturbing others or bring them into the office to do the same thing. The client makes the appointment. Why wouldn’t they schedule it when they didn’t have to bring the child?</p>

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<p>I once had to go to the gynecologist last minute. Hubby was away, and I had no family around. So I took my two yo with me. As I was in the stirrups and the doc was doing her thing, my d managed to get one of those long wooden q-tip looking things and come stand next to the dr and put her qtip in “there” too. The dr laughed a good long time, I was not as amused at the time. </p>

<p>I think everyone knows kids aren’t perfect every second, and neither are parents. It’s not the kids crying in cvs, or being carried out of a grocery store having a fit. Or the parent distressed and trying to get the child under control. It’s the ones who sit sipping a glass of wine at a nice restaurant or event while their child is out of control running, screaming, kicking who sit there doing nothing. If I go someplace child centered it’s my problem if I can’t handle the behavior. But if I go to a nice restaurant or event I expect the kids who are brought there will behave appropriately or be ushered out.</p>

<p>Hubby and I went to a 9 o’clock R rated movie last year and a young couple with a toddler came in and sat behind us. Sure enough the child started endlessly kicking my seat. I turned around and asked the parents to please keep the child from kicking my seat. The mom got so mad at me, she started going off. I had it and told her if she wasn’t aware a late R rated movie was no place for a toddler and she only had herself to blame - lol. Hubby was convinced I was getting beat up in the parking lot afterwards.</p>

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<p>Because from 9am-5pm husband is at work, babysitters are at school and mother is the only one available to watch the child?</p>

<p>Before my parents moved to town and before we found a number of homeschooled teens available during the day we had to take our children to appointments.</p>

<p>That’s when you break out the electronic gizmos, the rare and coveted snacks or even just a coloring book and crayons.</p>

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<p>Absolutely - any office dealing with the public. I don’t make any assumptions when clients bring kids to our tax office, but I do stay aware of them. Some are wonderful, and sit still through what can be a process that is boring to them, and stressful for their parents. Some have one parent take the kids outside during the bulk of the process, and I am grateful for their effort. Probably 90% of the time, there are no problems - but the other 10%! </p>

<p>As with all of the different “types” we’ve heard about on this thread, it comes down to the parents being aware of their own children’s need, and adapting their parenting to meet those needs. If your child’s temperament is such that he can’t sit still, please arrange for someone else to watch him - it will be less stressful for all involved, and we are less likely to make mistakes due to distraction. (Same applies to some degree if your husband can’t sit still either). I may be more forgiving if I’m aware of the whole story (whatever it happens to be), but not everybody in the office will understand. The same applies out in public. It’s not so much the “out of control” children that bother me, but the parents that don’t seem to be doing anything about it, or worse, ignoring it. It’s when the parents give up too easily on trying to set boundaries, as well as set good examples. Some day those same parents are going to wonder why their own children have no control over their grandchildren.</p>

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<p>One of my pet peeves is restaurants that put nothing but things like chicken nuggets, spaghetti with butter, and french fries on the children’s menu. It’s harder to convince kids that restaurants are special grown up places when they’re presented with a menu clearly meant for lowest common denominator eating.</p>

<p>Early on we made the calculated decision that it was worth the money to let our kids order off the adult menu. They took pride in eating things things like smoked salmon and escargot. Expensive, yes, but no more so than the cost of a babysitter, and the results were the same, a pleasant low-volume meal. </p>

<p>My kids aren’t always perfect and when they were little we spent plenty of time doing the eating in shifts while the on duty parent walks the stroller around the block thing, but they knew a good thing when they saw it. I did once turn around and take my kids home when it was clear they were not going to be able to behave in a restaurant. It was embarrassing for all of us but I can’t imagine the server minded. For years afterwards all I had to do was say, “Remember that time we had to leave the restaurant…” for them to straighten up. I think a lot of the poor behavior in restaurants has to do with parents who never follow through. Why should little Johnny and Sally heed mom and dad’s threats if they know they’ll never actually face any consequences?</p>