<p>I rarely feel compelled to post but was encouraged after reading others’ responses that I’m not completely turning into an old crank.</p>
<p>I’m reading about restaurants, offices, etc. My brother and I have vivid memories of my mother’s “church pinch.” Rest assured, we do not feel abused and are mostly well-adjusted:), but we still reminisce about her upper arm accuracy.</p>
<p>That said, our family left church more times than we stayed. I was always mindful that the person next to me may be in the depths of despair, searching for comfort and solace, etc. And when we left, it was a quick exit. Now, parents just sit with a rambunctious child, stage whisper “shhh” and repeat admonition ad nauseum. </p>
<p>I once had to resort to “the look” in front of a church we were visiting. All eyes turned to me as my wayward son refused to return to the pew after the children’s sermon. He decided it would be more fun to hop up and down at the communion rail than return to the pew.</p>
<p>I’ve done my share of hauling toddlers out of stores during tantrums. I was tired and frustrated–you spend time shopping and then you leave a basket for some poor person to put away. It’s not fun. But that’s the way it goes–I was the parent so I tried to act as one–plenty of stories from my own mom! My kids learned and so did I–they knew their behavior had consequences (very quickly to my happy surprise) and I learned their limits also and tried to work around it. I brought plenty of entertainment while dining out or on long trips and we had fun as a family.
I complimented my SIL about my nephews behavior (7 and 8) when they visited us. We had lots of fun. She just laughed and said they were under the “death penalty”. But I think she and her kids found good discipline is a win-win–when parents can enjoy their kids and OTHERS do too you get invited places and can experience more things. I think strangers complimenting behavior is a great reinforcement for the parents and their kids.</p>
<p>I always am apprehensive anytime kids are in the vicinity of where I’m sitting because I assume the parents will not discipline correctly. I know that’s a bit sad but it seems to be the reality of the present time where children are prioritized ahead of adults.</p>
<p>^I actually don’t see it as children being prioritized over adults a lot of the time. I see it as adults prioritizing their own experience over that of others: “I’m having too good a time or am too busy to discipline my kids, so everyone else will have to put up with them.”</p>
<p>For my daughter’s 8th birthday we gave her a one on one trip to NYC with mom, including dinner at an extremely upscale restaurant where she ordered a frogs’ legs appetizer followed by a sophisticated rabbit entree. The chef was so delighted by the comments she made to the waiter that he sent out a special additional dish just for her, then came out to talk with her. One of my favorite meals ever. </p>
<p>I’ve also been the parent of that overtired toddler trying to zoom up and down the aisle of the airplane and screeching inconsolably when trapped in her seat. No number of toys would entertain or console her as she cried and tried to kick the seat in front of her.</p>
<p>The parents at Le Cirque would have thought us brilliant parents and our daughter an angel, the families on the plane would have thought us losers with a hellion for spawn. Same child.</p>
<p>^ Great point! Every child (and parent) has their good and bad days. Guess we all have “been there” just need to remember those times and have some patience.</p>
<p>True, but the point has been made upthread several times that most people here agree it’s not the hellion having a bad day to the dismay of her exhausted, trying-hard parents that anyone is objecting to; it’s the out-of-control ones whose parents are blithely paying no attention and doing nothing to control–which has been observed to be becoming much more common than in the past.</p>
<p>If that’s not you, there’s no reason to feel you or your child is being targeted in this thread.</p>
<p>EPTR - YES YES YES! Do it!! Were you at my D’s Christmas show this year?? because that is exactly the scene. It was horrible. My hubby & I were trying to enjoy the show, btw, I had 3 of my other kids with me who were also concentrating on the show, and you would think we were at a social gathering for adults. AND the out of control kids with their parents sitting right there. UGH… I was so angry for the teachers and children that had obviously worked so hard on their performances. At one point we got up and moved, but it was more of the same thing. I just don’t understand some people anymore.</p>
<p>I think it’s sometimes a parenting belief that kids should have their “freedom” and not be told “no” ever in any form. I know with my family member, he and sil do believe it is emotionally harmful to their kids to set any limits, as they believe it hurts their feelings. (a style echoed in the film Parental Guidance) they also do their homework for them, so they don’t get too stressed, and defend them in school regularly as they are having some real issues already in school as well. Their choice as parents do not prepare them for the real world, and teaches them they are the center of the universe, where only their needs/wants/feelings matter. funny, bc same family member tells me he hopes his kids grow up to be like mine. guess he’d prefer to believe that one day ‘poof’ they’ll learn compassion, self control, hard work, respect, how to be friends etc. really very sad…</p>
<p>Fwiw, I disagree with Romani’s point about not talking to the child directly. While I agree that one should not go out of his way to address a little hooligan, if he comes in my zone, he will hear about it. If the parents complains about that part, the message has worked. </p>
<p>Kids have figured out how to exploit that silly expectation that other adults cannot discipline them, or keep them in line. Obviously, I am only talking about verbal interactions. And it does not have to be ugly. I have been known to lend my iPad to an hyperactive kid in a plane of restaurant.</p>
<p>Xiggi, I have no idea what’s going on in that child’s life. Both my partner and I work with special needs children and it’s always apparent what kind of “issues” a child may have. Therefore, I talk to the adult and not the child.</p>
<p>Romani, I understand your point, but those issues are the parents’ problems and responsibilities. If a child has to foreclosed from direct contacts with adults because of special “conditions” they should exercise better supervision. </p>
<p>And, again, talking to a kid about behaving a bit better is not the akin to starting WWIII. Also, it does not have to be in an ugly or aggressive way. I just do not buy in the theory that I should remain quiet and send blind stares in the direction of parents, especially when they do not seem to care. </p>
<p>That “leave my kids alone” is part of the problem, and not part of any solution.</p>
<p>Yes, they should exercise better supervision. I’m not claiming they shouldn’t. I’m just saying I think it’s better to talk to adults rather than children. If talking to the parents doesn’t work then perhaps a restaurant manager.</p>
<p>Romani, all of us respond differently to situations. I assume that, if kids are misbehaving, I would not be the only one who noticed, and that others might have tried the circular routes of looking for a manager. I take a more direct route. I do not go out of my way to create a problem; I respond to it when it affects me or my friends. And, I have never had a problem with parents. </p>
<p>Fwiw, I do not think that many parents enjoy being “talked” to by a young person who does not have children.</p>
<p>I would normally wait to see what the parent would do first, but if I don’t see any reaction from the parent then I would speak to the kid directly.</p>
<p>I was one of those stricter parents while my kids were younger. My biggest threat to my kids was, “We may need to have a talk when we get home.” With that, it would usually be scary enough to get my kids to stop whatever they were doing. When D1 was 5 and one young boy was harassing her at school, she said to the boy, “If you don’t stop, I am going to have my mother talk to you.”</p>
<p>Some parents may think they are empowering their kids when they allow their kids to do whatever they want, but I believe they are actually making their kid less confident and insecure. How many times have we not invited some pain in the neck kids to our house for play dates? Think about general public’s reaction to a kid when he/she misbehaves - negatively. So would you want your kid to be well liked or negatively received? How does a kid feel whenever someone looks him/her is always with a disdain? It is more emotionally harmful when a kid feels he is not well liked.</p>
because that is exactly the scene. It was horrible. My hubby & I were trying to enjoy the show, btw, I had 3 of my other kids with me who were also concentrating on the show, and you would think we were at a social gathering for adults. AND the out of control kids with their parents sitting right there. UGH… I was so angry for the teachers and children that had obviously worked so hard on their performances. At one point we got up and moved, but it was more of the same thing. I just don’t understand some people anymore.</p>