"rich" hispanic kids get no aid?

tupacodaman · February 8, 2006, 9:06pm

please take a second to read what I have to say :)

so i filled out the fafsa two weeks ago and was surprised when it told me that my EFC was 41000. That seems like an awfully high amount. I know that that is not the final amount that my family will be expected to pay, but can it possible get THAT much lower where my family can realistically afford for a good education without falling in debt for 20 years?

this is a very interesting world indeed. Both of my parents are 100% Colombian. They both moved here around the same time, about 23 years ago. Both my parents went to college in their native country and came here looking for a promising future. My dad came with very little. He started working as a mailman for Suntrust Bank. At the same time, he was learning English and typing. After a short time, people of higher positions realized my dad’s drive to work, as well as his intelligence, and made him in charge of the entire mail room. this was the beginning of a bright future for my father in Suntrust.

After several years working with the Bank and with Atlanta’s Latino communities, my dad kept on receiving promotion after promotion. Currently, he is earning $130,000 before taxes. All of his relatives who were too lazy or impatient to get their a visa to come to the US are in pretty bad shape. Both my dad and uncle, who is currently the president of colgate in Poland [another long story =) ], help their family, especially my widowed grandma. Basically, my dad is the best man i know. from his hard work, his drive, his intelligence, his kindness, and his love of the world in general, he has successfully raised a family in adverse conditions.

so this girl from venezuela moves to my high school freshman year. she’s not dumb, but she’s not terribly smart either. by the end of this year, she will have graduated with 5 AP classes, probably ranked in top 10% of class, and i think she said a 1250 on the old SAT. she is very involved with our school’s band. after applying (binding early-decision II) at emory, she was admitted. she found out last week and is getting a full ride for her financial need.

at the moment, I am not sure what college I will be able to attend because of the cost. my father was in a worse condition than this girl’s father was when they moved here. granted, my dad has had 18 years to get established, but every penny we have today is because of his hard work. anyway, I was on the cross-country and track team for all four years of high school. I also play five instruments and compose songs as a “solo project”, known three languages (spanish/french/english), and am an Eagle Scout with many additional national leadership awards. my Project consisted of teaching hispanic parents who knew little (if any) english the basics of computers. the school where I began the project liked the idea so much that they asked me if I would mind continuing the classes once a month (no pay of course haha), which I am beginning to do this month. I got a 1470 old SAT, 2190 new. my gpa isn’t THE best (3.8 weighted, rank 55/465) but I will have taken 10 AP classes and 13 AP tests by the end of my senior year

I’m not getting a free ride because of EFC. My dad wasn’t getting money thrown at him to attend graduate school when he moved here. now he’s expected to pay back what he’s gained. is this really fair? I have the material to get into emory and (hopefully crosses fingers) better schools, but I may not be able to afford them. people think that hispanic people have an advantage for being hispanic. I have learned that, while it does help, poor hispanics have a much greater advantage since they will actually be able to ATTEND the schools they get to.

i’ve spent about three full days surfing the net and searching through books looking for scholarships of all types. i’ve prolly passed up over half a million in scholarships simply because I do not meet the criteria for financial need ($65,000 for a family of five, which is frankly absurd). i’ve looked at the recipients of many of these awards, such as the Gates Millenium Scholars, and it seems like most of the students, while worthy of awards, are attending state schools or relatively inexpensive schools. though the goal of these scholarships is to give EXTREMELY needy hispanic students the chance to go to college, you would think that there would ALSO be other organizations promoting the increase of enrollment of Hispanic students in the Ivy League, where we are woefully underrepresented (6-7% at each school about, though we make up about 18% of the population right now and will make up 25% by 2015).

my question to all you minority students, especially the Hispanic students:
Are you facing the same situation as me? Somewhat likely acceptance into top-tier schools, where Hispanic students are sorely needed, but an “abundance” of money (EFC of over $30,000)? If so, what can we do? There is something wrong when the minorities who CAN make it into a good school can’t GO because of lack of funding, especially in a situation as ironic as I have presented, where hard work, the building block of this country (supposedly) ends up costing a family an extravagant amount.

SalikSyed · February 8, 2006, 9:44pm

ivy league schools will generally cover everything not covered by ur EFC… if ur EFC is 41,000 thats probably what you gotta pay… technically u should be able to afford this
why can you not afford it? … is ur dad sending money to his poorer relativse or something like that… i’m not sure but i think the PROFILE from collegeboard lets you fill in stuff like that so they can take it into account

lindalana · February 8, 2006, 10:13pm

<$65,000 for a family of five, which is frankly absurd). >

I believe level of poverty considered to be around 18k for family of 4.

You are lucky that your father was able to survive and raise to the top.
If you anything like him you will do great with or without Ivy school.

I can not say for your relatives but there many very hardworking immigrants who came here and worked very hard doing some manual labor for minimal wage. Do you know that housekeeper/which often mainly consist of hispanic/ polish/any other immigrants/ at some quite fancy hotels, earns about 1k a month?

OSUforME · February 8, 2006, 10:46pm

Your dad has worked hard and succeeded. Honestly, I know many white kids in the same situation. Like me.

My dad makes like 140000 a year but I am an identical twin. I have the grades and stats to get into an ivy, but not the financial resources (my brother also has the stats for an ivy). Like most kids in our situation, our parents will have to take out loans. Good luck with your colleges. Sometimes being in the middle class sucks.

tupacodaman · February 8, 2006, 11:10pm

the government must have messed up big somewhere, because seriously. out of 130,000, about 35k of that gets eaten up by taxes. then another 10,000 on heat and water. then factor in food and mortgage and that’s another 30,000. then insurance and gas for 15,000 more. right there, we have $40k left. my EFC was 41700. So basically we have to drive less, stop paying for heat and build fires instead, forget about paying health insurance (who needs that anyway?), take in less food than is healthy for growing teenagers, go to goodwill to shop for all our clothes, and forget sending money to our relatives? Combined, my brother and I spend about $2000 more on Boy Scout trips. ***!!! There’s no way this can be right.

If you think every family that survives with less than 20,000 can prepare a kid to a prestigious college, you’re mistaken

Immigrants are the hardest working people. They take whatever job is available, even if the pay isn’t good. They end up working jobs that no “higher class” people would dare to take. I have a great amount of respect for any immigrants coming to this country to start a new life, but the point I was trying to make was that my dad was able to live the American dream just by using his intellect. He never had to be a waiter or cashier or construction worker. my relatives could have come here and done any of those jobs or better, just like my dad, but they chose not to.

itstoomuch · February 8, 2006, 11:17pm

US of A is, hopefully, is getting blinder to your background. Your father has been successful because of this blindness to things that use to hinder people’s work towards success.

You may have to come to the realization that even though your family has done well, that You, yourself, is starting a new life document file. Just like everyone else. You have the advantage in that your family has tasted success and that your family’s EFC is not $0.

GL

Antarius · February 8, 2006, 11:22pm

US of A is, hopefully, is getting blinder to your background.
Thats a good thing
Where u are now is what u should be applauded for and thats where the future lies

Not what race etc. belongs to

and yes, having to shell out isnt good. But if u didnt have the cash, its worse

sblake7 · February 8, 2006, 11:29pm

The girl from Venezuela that you mentioned – who is getting a free ride to Emory based on financial need – probably has an EFC close to 0, which likely means that her family income is under 40K.

Just because you’re not going to receive need-based aid doesn’t mean you need to shut off the lights, or survive on 20K. Most families in your situation use a combination of borrowing, savings, and current income to foot the college bill. Home equity is a huge source of funding-- and since the interest paid on home equity loans is tax deductable, it has other advantages.

And, of course, the student can work to help the parents afford college.

So perhaps in a hypothetical situation with a family making 130K, only 10K would come out of current parental income, with the balance coming from loans, savings, and student income.

Remember too, that most states have good State universities where in-state tuition is reasonable, and the full cost of college is often under 20K annually.

chammom · February 9, 2006, 9:03am

My son is Latino and he is not getting any financial aid. Our income is a bit less than your parents. I came from poverty and worked very hard to get to a place where I can provide for my son. Howver, I feel differently from you. I feel that financial aid should be reserved for those who can not possibly go to college without it, regardless of their heritage. Yes, I will have to get into serious debt to send my son to the college of his choice, but that is no different from what a lot of other families are doing, regardless of race.

As a Latina, I fully appreciate the need for more diversity in colleges. Therefore I feel that aid should be used to enable more qualified hispanics to attend, who perhaps would not be able to go otherwise. (that is, can’t cut back, get second mortgages etc). Economic diversity should be a goal as well. Students of any race that have been qualified enough to gain admittance,should not be turned away because their parents don’t have the salary, or house equity, or small business to enable them to procure the tuition.

My own parents did not have a nickel between them. It wasn’t because of laziness but because of a lack of education, illness , language barrier etc. When it came time for me to go to college, I was lucky enough to qualify for financial aid. That is how I was able to get the education that has allowed me to provide a more comfortable life for my own child. I will now make the sacrifices neccessary to pay for my son’s education, and I will leave financial aid for those oarents that don’t have any resources.

Antarius · February 9, 2006, 9:37am

my parents income is 30k and my EFC is 13k

Where is the justice??? (to be said in accusatory way)

lindalana · February 9, 2006, 9:49am

Tupacodaman, the EFC is not based on ability of family to have available cash to pay from your income. It is based on your family ability to carry debt. Family whose income is 30k a year won’t be able to qualify for morgage of house that cost million $$. Borrowing ablilty just is not there. Similar picture is when calculating your family EFC.
Income of 130K allowes your family to take significant debt- at least in the eyes of goverment. What usually happens is that you can work during the summer and get 3-5 k to pay from your own money, take some loans-another 5 K, your parents can pay some from their income -10-15K and cutting down on vacations, newspapers, eating out, remodeling projects, new car etc. and borrow some money as well- another 10-15K. Now you arrived to 40 K a year picture.
It is up to you and your parents to decide if your education is worth such sacrifice.

mommusic · February 9, 2006, 10:06am

tupacoda, you sound like a smart kid with a lot on the ball. You should be able to get merit scholarships from a lot of great schools. You didn’t say what you plan to major in or if you are a senior (or a junior just filling out the FAFSA for informational purposes.) Or possibly a NM semifinalist? Many schools give scholarships based on SAT or ACT scores because they want to attract better students. Forget the Ivies, use your assets (both mental and fiscal) and good luck!

Now you see the problem with a system that rewards people based on race or country of origin, and not just financial need. It just occurred to me–I have friends who adopted a darling baby boy from Guatemala. He’s “Hispanic” but would not be considered socio-economically disadvantaged in any way. Weird world. Be grateful for good genes (your parents) and for good luck.

itstoomuch · February 9, 2006, 10:32am

Antarius: How that investment is expressed makes a hugh difference in the EFC. Is the investment in property, property in partnership, a rental, IRA, 401k, life insurance, annuities, savings bonds, CD’s, etc. If you the investments are not in sheltered tax vehicle then you take a hit but if they are sheltered then you make an entry error. Its worth the reexamination.

A.S.A.P · February 9, 2006, 11:19am

Median family income in the U.S. is around $65,000. So you see, your dad has done very well in the short time he has been here. You are lucky, indeed.
Most of us are in the same boat that you and your family are in . We need to take out loans if we want to send our kids to the pricey, eilte schools. On the other hand, my daughter received some very nice merit aid from some excellent small colleges that seemed to want her geographical diversity. She also could have attended our flagship state university with a small merit scholarship and some nice perks. We would not have had to take on debt with either of these options, but we felt, for a variety of reasons, that it was worth it in her case.
Hispanics are still an unrepresented minority in many parts of the country, so targeted merit applications may have resulted in some nice surprises - but you would have had to target schools under the tippy-top elites, (USC…greatest deal going!) as the elites only give based on need. These schools are not “buyers market” schools. But it’s the same challenge for all of us- black, asian, white, hispanic.
If you have a strong desire to attend a pricey need-only school, you might try to work something out with your dad where they pay what a state school would have cost, and you accept the responsibilty of the premium - the extra bite that the private requires. This would require working summers, and maybe the first few years after you graduate to pay it back, but it may be worth it. Some friends of ours made this deal with his son - they are older parents with two college sons and both parents working, making the same income as just your dad. They want to to give their sons a good education, but they aren’t willing to risk their retirement to give them the “mercedes.” I believe they are taking out loans to cover both parts of the deal, as it is.
Good luck to you. If you have the same work ethic and smarts as your dad, you’ll go far!

sblake7 · February 9, 2006, 12:21pm

Antarius:

With family income of 30K, it would be unusual to have an EFC as high as 13K, unless you have significant assets in the Student’s name. You might want to double check your figures-- make sure you’re not overestimating parental assets or student assets. Also look into the Simplified Needs Test – if you’re able to file short form 1040A or EZ, you can have all your assets excluded from the formula. With a little planning, you might be able to bring that 13K down quite a bit (maybe to 0).

sybbie719 · February 9, 2006, 12:33pm

I think you need a paradigm shift because no one is doing something to you, the government hasn’t messed up and you are definitely not a victim. No one is perecuting your family for being rich hispanics, because any black, white, asian, or native american in the same position is going to have the same EFC.

here is a link to a big discussion on the parents forum about the same issue that you are presenting;

<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=144477[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=144477</a>

There are but it still does not negate the fact that financial aid at the ivies and even programs aimed at getting more minorities in to these schools still look at demonstrated need. would you be a strong contender for the ivies, no doubt, but is the school going to throw money at you to attend when you can afford to pay your way? Nope, becasuse money is given out on the basis of need.

Need based financial aid, is just that monies given by schools based on your demonstrated financial need. According to their calculations, your father making $130,000 and probably has assets (you state a mortgage) therefore, your parents can afford to send you to college.

These are life choices that you family has consciously made. Don’t get me wrong he has made choices that work for him and your family. The colleges however are not going to reduce your EFC because of those choices because at the end of the day they are wants vs needs . Does one need to pay $15,000 on gas and insurance or does one want to becasue they like the car that they drive?

There are also choices as far as what kind of school you want to attend. Does any one need to attend a college that cost $40,000+ per year? No . Do people want to attend them? Yes, so in this case they have to come up with a way to make it work.

Your $40,000 EFC means that you are pretty much going to be a full freight student at almost any college where you are not being given considerable merit money. Your grades , scores and URM status will make you a viable candidate any many of them. Now the choice is can you reconcile your self to attend such a school?

Right now you need to sit down and talk with your parents regarding how much money are they willing to pay out or borrow in financing your education. There are still a few schools left that have a filing date of 2/15 in the event you may have to add more schools.
Good luck

dsmo · February 9, 2006, 4:53pm

Your dad is making several times the national average. You shouldn’t be expecting much of anything.

But it could be worse. My EFC was 99999+, with an income not much larger than your own.

tupacodaman · February 9, 2006, 5:02pm

thx for all the input guys. don’t get me wrong, I know that I am extremely fortunate in terms of financial need and will probably be able to somehow afford whatever school I choose to attend. I just wanted to throw out the situation to see if there were any other Hispanic seniors in the somewhat ironic situation of being a smart URM who doesn’t qualify for scholarships because of need. trust me, there is almost nothing out there for us.

btw, I’m a national hispanic scholar (the collegeboard thing), but missed GA’s merit semifinalist (i got a 210 selection index and i needed a 215 i think). too bad the program stopped giving out 2000 a year :(

dsmo · February 9, 2006, 5:55pm

It’s late now, but you should have tried Michigan. They throw all kinds of money at URMS.

LittleLostFlute · February 9, 2006, 6:31pm

My family income is only about $45,000 a year…and that’s for 4 people to live on. I’m going to a pretty expensive school next year…and nobody has really thrown me any money yet…so consider yourself fortunate. Also, my brother is 4 years behind me…so as soon as I’m done with college, he will start. I feel sorry for my parents…seriously…

"rich" hispanic kids get no aid?

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