My favorite quote- and apologies to the OP for not remembering who said it (maybe @PurpleTitan or @GMTplus7?) was that the “Chances” thread was the playground end of CC.
It is true that there are posters at the extremes (too unquestioningly positive, too brutally negative), but there are a lot of posters in the middle who genuinely try to give applicants helpful advice- but even gently trying to add some realism can be perceived as negativity.
For example, there is a new thread in Chances ([her](http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1890586-trying-for-some-ivies-p1.html)) where the poster gave their college list as 6 Ivy/near Ivy and 1 college with a 25% acceptance rate as a “safety” and asked what people thought of their chances. The posters current stats put them in the middle 50% of accepted students- at the “safety” school. Four posters said 'good start, but you need some safeties, here is where your stats are for your “safety”, and don’t forget to consider cost. To my eyes all were friendly and overall positive, just pointing out the imbalance in the proposed list. But to the OP, it felt like a slap:
Tempering dreams with reality- and practicality, especially financial!- is a hard part of growing up, but as others have said, asking the hard questions now can head off greater pain later.
It’s true that some posts seem unkind, but often the raw truth is the reality check that teenagers need. As stated over and over on CC, there are hundreds of colleges to choose from. Not getting into the Tippy Top schools does not equate academic failure. Parents and teens should focus on finding the school that is the best fit financially, academically and socially for that kid. Studies have shown that high achieving students will be successful regardless of where they enroll.
I think this kind of blunt discussion is necessary because teens and their parents are only comparing their snowflake to other kids in their high school or city. On another thread @lostaccount did some math on how many seats are really available at the Ivies/Top 20 each year. It’s something like 16,662. Take off roughly 25% for recruited athletes, children of huge donors, political and government officials, actors, musicians and kids who are themselves celebrity. That leaves 12,500 seats. There are roughly 1.6 million seniors matriculating to college. If you only consider the top 1% that leaves 4100k kids without seats. But the Top 20 receive thousands and thousands of applications and don’t just pull from the top 1%.
And it’s fine to throw app money at the top schools, but matches and safeties are there for a reason. I’m not going to quit my job because I might win Powerball.
I avoid chance threads like plague, but I don’t really see students with stellar academic resumes actively being discouraged from applying to high reaches elsewhere on the site. The general CC consensus seems to be:
make a list of a couple of reaches, a couple "realistic reaches", a few matches, and 2 or 3 safeties
spend more time researching / visiting matches and safeties as statistically that's where you are likely to go
make sure you understand what a safety is. if you do you will never say, "I can't afford my safety" or "I am devastated b/c I have to go to my safety and i hate it" or "I got rejected by my safety - it was Tufts."
i have not been here very long and have already seen too far many of the tragic posts from kids with “exemplary” applications, who are devastated b/c they only applied to reaches and got shut out, or got all starry-eyed about Ivies while not giving matches and safeties due diligence and now find their options severely limited. if a somewhat indelicately-phrased dose of reality can save one kid from making such a mistake, it’s far more beneficial than ego-stroking that does not truly convey the realities of admissions at elite schools.
and i’m sorry, but kids with 3.7 GPA and 1800 SAT whining about how unfair it is that Ivies don’t accept them and recognize what a great student they are? they really need a cold dose of reality. ego-stroking is the fuel that runs the engine of entitlement.
Going online and asking the opinions of pretty much total strangers re: what your chances are of getting into an Ivy League university is kind of like standing on the corner and shouting out at passersby and asking their opinion. Or it’s like going to the mall or to Walmart and going up to a random person who really knows nothing about you personally…and asking them what your chances are of getting into Harvard.
If you look at it like that, it’s pretty silly. Instead of getting really emotional about it, go academic…do your research. For each of your favorite ‘reach’ schools, compare your stats against that school’s Common Data Set.
AND…
Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter what the rest of US think of what your or anybody else’s chances are of getting into a top school. The only people’s opinions who DO matter are the individuals at that college who are in the admissions review committee.
That’s a good thing to do, but unfortunately it can lead some high-stats kids into an overly rosy estimate of their odds at the most selective schools. And that kid, who has the highest SAT ever at his local high school (as well as perfect grades) is often being told by people around him that he’ll get in everywhere. This is where CC can be useful–such as by looking at the results threads for highly selective schools.
This exact scenario recently played out at the local rural high school @Hunt. Val has a 4.0 uw/2100 SAT and everyone - including clueless gc - thinks she’s a genius and should apply to HYPS. She’s a very bright, talented and lovely young woman but as we know there are thousands of students with equal and or better stats.
Community was shocked when she didn’t get into reaches such as Northwestern. Thankfully someone suggested she apply to some matches.
Again, I think many are missing the OP’s point as well as mine.
No one is saying factual information which helps someone better understand the impossibility of statistical prediction of elite schools is bad information; in fact I am sure we have 100% agreement it is good, and necessary.
It’s the attitude and the way the information is often delivered that has brought CC the reputation it has. I don’t want to call out anyone specifically but there are comments ranging from sanctimony through crass to pejorative right on this very page.
(ok it paginated of course, so make that the previous page!)
“there are comments ranging from sanctimony through crass to pejorative right on this very page.”
At the risk at being deemed crass or sanctimonious or pejorative, I don’t see that here very often at all. I don’t see it on this thread at all. Blunt sometimes, maybe. One needs somewhat of a thick skin when dealing with anonymous strangers on the internet but compared to with 99.9% of the world wide web, I think CC is a helpful, fairly kind place. It rarely gets out of hand and if it does the moderators are good about reining things in. The worst offenders I see are actually teen posters not adults.
The comment I quoted is probably the most inflammatory comment on this thread as it is a bit hyperbolic IMO.
Another issue that I don’t believe has been mentioned is affordability. While the super endowed schools usually will make it affordable, most others will not. “Meets full need” is based on the schools’ own calculation of need and is often more than the family is willing to pay and sometimes more than the family is able to pay. It doesn’t matter if the student is admitted to BU, USC WUStL etc. if attending would mean $80,000 in student and parental loans. The media is full of horror stories about the student dent crisis, most of which is due to poor planning and a student insisting on going to their dream school.
But if you ask a student in a chancing thread what their family can afford they often become offended and say that it is none of our business.
Well then maybe it is a matter of perspective, because I cited a published book and a well-known website that speak of this place in the worst possible terms. So the reputation is there, whether you perceive it or not.
So we agree on that. I just don’t think it SHOULD.
Not hyperbolic at all - as per the “on this page” part, which means they can be easily verified and meant to be taken literally. If you want me to list the pejoratives alone for starters I will, but you know what will happen then.
Urban Dictionary calls itself a satirical site and the entries focus on the pompousness of the posters listing there stats not on the responses of those giving advice. The book you mention is, as you state yourself, a humor book. I don’t think either “source” you mention gives weight to your comments, @Postmodern.
@TomSrOfBoston , no… I am saying that in my short experience here I have seen posts that could have been much nicer and more considerate, and the OP does also. I actually can’t believe its even a debate.
@doschicos , neither of those facts negates them being true. In fact, satire and humor only work when they are based in fact. If you substituted your community food bank’s website for CC in those places, would it be funny or satire? In the book, it’s a whole chapter! On CC being “the scariest place on the internet!”
C’mon guys, just google the title of this website and follow it up with a bad word. You’ll find link after link, from 3rd parties and many right here in these forums. Are you saying it’s just me and OP who think this? We’d have to be posting a lot, with many alts.
Oh my gosh save me from the fainting daisies that can’t handle the truth. Seriously. I will chew you up and spit you out AFTER I snap you in two in the real world where screwing up your job and not being able to take criticism can cost your company millions of dollars or kill someone.
I just have absolutely no patience for people who feel that any discussion that might upset someone is " sanctimony through crass to pejorative right on this very page."
Oh boo hoo. Grow up.
Signed, the Sanctimonious, Crass, Pejorative (and usually right) Mother of Dragons.
If I was crass, pejorative or sanctimonious, I apologize. But reality checks are never easy to take. I had to give one to my own son a few weeks ago. Teens live in a high school bubble and it’s our jobs as parents to be transparent about this process. So when they stumble onto CC wanting validation that they are indeed Ivy material and have a strong chance of being admitted, they’re not going to get it. Because reality.
There was tremendous grief among the honors kids the year our d graduated high school. Much of it was caused by unrealistic expectations. The other was heartbreak over being admitted to schools their parents simply could not afford.