<p>I have to stick up for Oldman a little here, because I think we may have a little cultural misunderstanding.</p>
<p>“Better student”, at least in Alabama is a phrase with a special meaning. I read his post, and didn’t bat an eyelash the first time because I understood, I think, what he meant. I re-read it after all the comments, and now I see what you all are saying.</p>
<p>If my husband told my retired school teacher Mama that a child in his class was one of his “better students” that would automatically imply top or near the top of the class, plus with that little extra something - intellectual curiosity, for the lack of a better term. </p>
<p>The kids I know around here that got accepted to Harvard, Duke, Davidson, Dartmouth, Stanford, Yale - yeah, I would describe them as the “better students”, but I don’t mean it quite the way you guys are just reading it. Sorry.</p>
<p>Late to the party…back to the original rung issue. We feel that our son’s choice is an absolutely terrific school. He looked for schools that offered the types of classes he wanted–small with lots of interaction, were of a certain size, were not located in or near Texas. It is very selective, though not as selective as an Ivy. Whether it is better or he’ll be a better person etc…I can’t say. I just know he loves it and thus we do as well. </p>
<p>The only reason I have to couch what I say on this board in terms of rungs, is because my/his experiences with the admissions process are vastly different because he was not applying to an Ivy. An Ivy would have been too much of a reach and he never expressed a desire to attend one or I’m sure we would have given it a go, too. </p>
<p>So many are looking for an Ivy or elite admission here, and they want to know what to expect. I can only add that “this worked for us” or “this happened to us” in terms of where he applied and how he stacked up against the other applicants.</p>
<p>Some of you many not be surprised to hear this, but, personally, I am rather shocked that even Princeton itself feeds into this ranking frenzy. My husband graduated from the Engineering school at Princeton and receives its mailings. Yesterday we received a booklet from the Princeton School of Engineering and Applied Sciences (SEAS) called “Engineering for a Better World - The Princeton Vision”. The booklet describes planned major revisions in the engineering program to make it more interdisciplinary, modernize the curriculum, etc., all of which sound great. But in the very first paragraph, it is stated that “Meeting these objectives will vault SEAS to the top ranks of engineering schools.” Later on it talks about Princeton “in comparsion to top engineering schools” and also mentions Cornell as “the only Ivy League university with an engineering school ranked in the top 10.” All of the proposals described in the booklet sound wonderful in and of themselves, but I find it extremely disturbing that any school (and especially Princeton) is basing the success of its initiatives on the rankings created by a commercial, non-scholarly and non-academic magazine.</p>
<p>we spent an afternoon walking around the University of Rochester (a very fine school in my opinion) trying to get that “sense” of the school. In the course of a couple hours of enaging students in idle conversation, no less than a half dozen recanted stories of how they were either admitted or waitlisted at Ivies (well, there was one MIT in the mix) and chose Rochester because of the scholarships and/or financial aid. It somehow seemed important to them that we knew they were “just as good” as the students attending the more “prestigious” schools.
processed out</p>
<hr>
<p>Poor kids. It must be tough to be a New Yorker.</p>
<p>I was oblivious to this when I graduated in 1968. It actually never occurred to me that the kids at Harvard were smarter than me. Turns out they weren’t. Though raised partly in the Midwest, I did graduate from highschool in a poor third world country, where few went to the States for college. I remember in college we had a transfer student from Harvard, for some reason, (possibly lost his athletic scholarship) and everyone acted like he must be smart. First time I thought about it. I was sort of puzzled and thought: “well maybe he is, maybe not.”</p>
<p>I was sure glad when my son got a 1450 SAT and realized that with some additional study, which he never did, he could easily get 1500. I wanted him to feel just as smart, too. </p>
<p>I guess as we see the politcs of elitism, the decline of the well-paid working class and tax breaks for the wealthy we are becoming more like Great Britain with a rigid class structure evey year. No surprise that the education system reflects this.</p>
And how long does this self-perception hang over them? And how destructive is or isn’t it? That’s the legacy this godforsaken “rankings” world is offering our S/Ds.</p>
Very good point. My worry is that those S/Ds without the luxury that I have (including,most likely, my S) may suffer what processedout refers to in his URochester walkabout. </p>
<p>My gS will absolutely never have the luxury. We just pray he gets into some college somewhere (slight exaggeration for effect). He is also unlikely to travel in circles where he will feel the distinction between himself and HYPS folks. </p>
<p>But many of our S/Ds will travel in those circles (they already do). If they chose not to go HYPS,that’s one thing. But if they tried and “failed” or didn’t try because the read those #@!!&* posts on “What are my chances?”, where does that leave them?</p>
<p>jmmom - I don’t know if it’s a major issue, but in reviewing several of the topics in the parent’s forum I see it, both overtly and in the subtext. It’s sort of like the North Face clothing we sent to my daughter at the beginning of winter. We know it’s high quality, but we also realize we’re paying a premium for the label. The label doesn’t contribute anything toward keeping her warm.</p>
<p>Absolutely nothing wrong with striving to be the best. It’s when the prevailing culture creates artificial definitions of best - definitions which based on simple supply and demand grant the “you made it” label to a very small proportion of those who have achieved equally - there’s where the rub comes in, imho.</p>
<p>processed - You and I are in total agreement as far as I can see. And I don’t want to overplay the effect this might or might not be having on our kids. I’d love to see it disappear, but don’t think it will. Hope idler is correct that any ill effects are not lasting; don’t know if s/he is.</p>
<p>Btw, another great discussion on cc. The arts of conversation, introspection, analysis… are alive and well here.</p>
<p>jmmom, I thought you moved out of Cal to escape the rat race. You just entered the largest rat race, as far as college admissions goes, in the country. Nobody cares about the IVYS and LACs as people do in the northeast.</p>