<p>I’m not speaking to this case directly. However, I’m familiar with students in our community doing terribly stupid things with internet facebook and sextexting, and having to live with the consequences - arrest, newspaper stories, and civil lawsuits against their parents’ homeowner’s insurance liability policy. Kids, including stupid teenagers, do stupid things without regard to consequences to other people or consequences to themselves if they are caught. There’s plenty scientific research regarding teens’ poor impulse control and poor judgment; and that’s why their not allowed to drink until 21, drive until 16 -18, etc. Lives are derailed due to stupid stupid stuff where little malice was intended but a prank went viral. Here in our community, two 14-year-old freshmen were arrested on a felony hate crime for a stupid posting on a facebook page that used “n” word regarding a longtime third friend (yes, friend), and their wealthy parents were sued by that friend’s parents in civil court. Arrest occurred after friend’s parents lobbied police for two months for an arrest to “set an example” - and set stage for court-case. Two kids eventually received community service sentences, and a great deal of notoriety. I’m unsure regarding civil suit settlement costs.</p>
<p>Likewise, teens can be arrested for “sex crimes” for willingly sex-texting pictures of one another? It’s happened here in our upscale suburban community - our HS over-achievers can also be out-of-control substance-abusing “accident waiting to happen” kids. Yet parents here don’t restrict cell-phone use, monitor facebook pages, or quiz their teens too closely on their evening plans; most everything is “reaction” when trouble occurs. Our HS sophomore DS doesn’t have facebook, texting capacity, unrestricted web access, and he seems happy to be relieved from that distraction.</p>
<p>Recalling terrible stuff that students did when I lived in college dorms three decades ago when little technology existed, this episode at Rutgers (filming a fellow student’s intimacies) doesn’t surprise me at all.</p>
<p>I shortened your statement, Gwen, because in answering Marian’s question:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I can’t even make it to the Next Step. I cannot affirmatively answer her question (let alone talk about counseling & family therapy), because I cannot imagine ever being faced with this, given my children’s upbringing. There are other things I can imagine their succumbing to, but this is not one of them. I would be so stuck back in the horrified stage that Step Two is not yet in an imaginable form.</p>
<p>I’ve never heard that “old taunt.” But I have heard about many varieties of ‘outed’ heterosexual love interests resulting in adolescent suicides. I guess I get out more. ;)</p>
<p>With these, as with all suicides, people from the outside, and even more so – people not acquainted with the suicide victims – there is sometimes more than one trigger, previous contributing factors, etc. That does not reduce any individual culpability for consciously contributing through bullying, invasion, disrespect, or sheer insensitivity.</p>
<p>Totally agree. I think anything less is a grave injustice to the family. I guess this would be my first “imaginable” reaction as a parent. Even if institutions did not require facing the music (no pun intended), I would. Unless of course the family has indicated that that would deepen their grief to have to an encounter. </p>
<p>Just sending them away without their really needing to account for themselves, hear the family’s reaction, and have to deal with continued public dismay, seems like a breach of justice to me. Let them somehow face the consequences first, before restarting their lives.</p>
<p>I find the silence on the part of the parents of these two students to be offensive. Now, you’re right, I’m undoubtedly jumping to conclusions here; perhaps their silence has been “commanded” by the lawyers; I don’t know. But from a moral point of view, it seems to me that the least I could do as a parent (answering the question above) would be myself to come out and make a public statement, apologizing for any part my child may have had in such an incident, and expressing my deep grief as another parent. If such a statement happens long after my child is “safe,” then that would also be long after it would begin losing its impact and credibility.</p>
<p>I am wondering what you (the OP and any other who care to share) think is the right punishment for the two college kids who filmed the deceased student in a sex act and then posted it is. </p>
<p>To my knowledge, they didn’t anticipate that the deceased student would kill himself. I am sure they imagined that if he found out what they did would he would be ashamed but I do not think it ever crossed his mind that he would take his own life. </p>
<p>I am not excusing the crime or the stupidity of it. </p>
<p>I am just wondering what punishment fits that crime in your eyes. </p>
<p>If it has already been answered which post # was it and I will read it myself. </p>
<p>This crime, in my opinion, was a stupid decision that lead to an unforeseen tragic consequence. </p>
<p>This quote from this thread is interesting:
Likewise, teens can be arrested for “sex crimes” for willingly sex-texting pictures of one another? It’s happened here in our upscale suburban community - our HS over-achievers can also be out-of-control substance-abusing “accident waiting to happen” kids. Yet parents here don’t restrict cell-phone use, monitor facebook pages, or quiz their teens too closely on their evening plans; most everything is “reaction” when trouble occurs. </p>
<p>-Very, very well put. </p>
<p>-Most parents are “shocked” and react AFTER it is too late.</p>
<p>I can’t really imagine being Ravi or Wei’s parent, either.</p>
<p>And yet I have no difficulty imagining being the parent or other family member of a Notre Dame athletic official who allowed a student to go up on a lift to film football practice in high winds and therefore helped to create the circumstances that led to that student’s death.</p>
<p>The contradiction bothers me. Realistically, although Ravi (and to a lesser extent, Wei) did something that was offensive, obnoxious, and unethical, I don’t think that they or anyone else anticipated the possibility that it could lead to a death. On the other hand, the Notre Dame officials knew or should have known that sending a cameraman up on a lift under those conditions was dangerous – this is not the first incident of its kind, and safety is part of these people’s jobs. The Notre Dame athletic officials are almost certainly more culpable in Declan Sullivan’s death than Ravi and Wei are in Tyler Clementi’s death. Yet I can sympathize more with the Notre Dame officials and their families than I can with Ravi and Wei and their families.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone has considered what punishment fits the crime on this thread-- don’t think it was the intended purpose. I myself think they should be tried on invasion of privacy charges and convicted. They would probably receive a suspended sentence, and to me, that’s plenty. They’ve already done themselves irreparable harm and I doubt either would consider doing this again.</p>
<p>Epiphany, I agree with most of what you say, especially about the parents speaking up. I certainly can’t imagine my child doing anything like this…I really do believe the parents are greatly to blame.</p>
<p>When I first opened this thread, I am pretty sure I read a few posts near the top about how the two students shouldn’t just leave Rutgers but should basically hung out in the town square and pelted with rocks until they die. </p>
<p>Interesting. </p>
<p>Blood thirsty but interesting. </p>
<p>So I was just wondering if those folks had really thought about what punishment fit the crime and if they stand by those comments.</p>
<p>For Ravi: a felony conviction for invasion of privacy, which I guess would be a third or fourth degree crime in NJ, and a year in jail, followed by probation that prohibits him from owning or operating a computer with a camera for five years. </p>
<p>For Wei: Don’t know, because the details of her complicity seem to be less public. Probably substantially less than Ravi’s, since the appearance is that he was the one who came up with the concept and who set up the technology.</p>
<p>I don’t think that Clementi’s parents have a suit against Ravi for Clementi’s death, but a civil case by the executor’s of Clementi’s estate for invasion of privacy would seem to be a possibility. </p>
<p>But in defense of Ravi and Wei’s parents, the students’ lawyers may have strongly advised them to say absolutely nothing, and following the attorneys’ advice is generally a good idea.</p>
<p>I don’t think that either of them should ever get jobs that give them access to peoples’ private information since they’ve rather thoroughly showed a disdain for privacy. Much like convicted embezzlers aren’t usually considered for bookkeeping positions.</p>
<p>I don’t know if it’s exactly fair to ask that question. This case has not been tried in the courts yet. We don’t have all the facts. There may be more incriminating evidence that we haven’t heard about yet that would cause some of us to wish a more stricter punishment on them. I definitely believe there is some serious responsibility here, but I’d have to wait until I heard more.</p>