<p>I know Republicans who are gay, and I know Republicans who have beloved children who are gay. All good people do not share opinions on the ways to make the world better. I really don’t think it is fair to the cause on this thread for the matter to be hijacked by partisan politics.</p>
<p>Intparent
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<p>Please…Christians are harassed. Fat people are harassed. Conservatives (especially women) are definitely harassed…The list goes on. This thread is about Tyler.</p>
<p>Intparent
I think the two perps should suffer all available criminal and civil consequences. To bring up Hitler, Bundy, and Madoff in this context, for any reason, is ridiculous. </p>
<p>I agree with this to some extent. Still, at eighteen we are old enough to take responsibility for our choices. The actions of the people who posted the video certainly contributed to Tyler’s death. They deserve some life-changing consequences.</p>
<p>I think a poster in the college life forum said it best. He basically said this is a tragedy for all around. As someone that has a little bit of a background in legal stuff, I can tell you that most likely these 2 will be charged with hate crimes and maybe even manslaughter. Prosecutors often like to charge people with as much as possible and hope some of it becomes a conviction. Thats why we often hear about people getting indicted on like 25 counts on what seems like one crime. Its hard to say if Ravi and Wei will face jailtime and/or how. They both seem wealthy and wealthy people have a lot more resources in the legal system. One thing I do find interesting is that both are charged with the same crime, yet many media sources are only listing Ravi as the person that shot the video. I understand Wei let him use the camera (please correct me if I wrong about this). Also, if I was Tyler’s parents, I would definitely be looking into whether Rutgers could have done more. These two, especially Ravi it seems obviously had some homophobia issues. Often times I read about students with roommates of the opposite orientation and the effects are disastrous. While Im all for equal rights, sometimes safety must come first. Rutgers is a private school and if they refused to do something to put Tyler in a safer environment (because of discrimination issues most likely) they should be sued IMO because they had the opportunity to possibly prevent this.</p>
<p>What would you do if these two were your children? Would you encourage them to accept a plea, or would you want to have them go to trial? Either way, this will affect their lives for a very long time.</p>
<p>Rutger is a public school. Ravi and Wei’s family are not that wealthy, not Duke lacross player family kind of wealthy. I don’t think they will be able to afford the kind of representation Duke lacross players got.</p>
<p>If I believe my child had done something wrong, I would encourage her to plea, put it behind her, learn from it, and move on. If my child was wrongfully accused, I would fight to the end.</p>
<p>If I were one of those parents, at the some point, I would find an opportunity to apologize to Tyler’s parents.</p>
<p>So difficult to imagine how a kid in 2010 ends up homophobic. I can’t imagine any of the young people I know giving a good darn about the sexual orientation of their roommate. In the era of Jersey Shore, with three-way kissing and the like…just a mystery. </p>
<p>This is the most promiscuous generation ever. My two cents is that the real issue is just being a bully. In general. Pure hate. Legally, those two kids can be nabbed for a hate crime, but in reality I bet it was just plain hate. It may have taken the form of homophobia if Tyler had that as an Achilles heel, but it could have easily been any other potential target on his back. I am always being controversial on CC in doubting the prevalence of very specific forms of hatred, because this is what I see. In my travels I witness human beings just being major db’s in general, and sometimes they look for a specific hook to trash someone that they would dislike no matter the circumstance. Doesn’t make any of it any better, really. But perhaps if we just focused on treating each other properly, humanely, and lost the distraction of the specifics, the solution would come more easily.</p>
<p>I think we have also become too indulgent of our children. Some parents think it is no big deal to make other kids feel bad, as long as their own kid is happy.</p>
<p>There was a case at my kids’ high school where there was a group of kids tormenting a new kid. They regularly slipped hateful notes in the girl’s backpack and locker. The girl never told anyone about it. It was lucky her mother read her diary, in it she described her daily torment and was contemplating suicide. Her parents brought it to the school’s attention, and the school contacted those kids’ parents. Over 80% of those parents thought it was no big deal, and thought the girl was just too sensitive. The girl’s parents did the right thing by transfering the girl to a different school. Last time I heard, she was doing well at her new school.</p>
<p>Webcams, sex, and the death of privacy. - By William Saletan - Slate Magazine</p>
<p>Within two days, a user named cit2mo—apparently Clementi’s alias—was telling friends at justusboys.com, a gay Web forum, what Ravi had said. “I checked his twitter today,” Clementi wrote. “He tweeted that I was using the room (which is obnoxious enough), AND that he went into somebody else’s room and remotely turned on his webcam and saw me making out with a guy.” Clementi went on to describe the responses from Ravi’s friends. Their entire conversation was visible on Twitter.
For the three days of their cat-and-mouse game, the roommates never saw each other in person. When Clementi wanted Ravi to vacate the room for another tryst, he texted him. But now Clementi knew which door to shut—and which window in cyberspace would show him what Ravi was up to. On justusboys.com, Clementi reported: “When I got back to the room I instantly noticed he had turned the webcam toward my bed. And he had posted online again [saying] ‘anyone want a free show just video chat me tonight’…”
Ravi’s exact tweet was: “Anyone with iChat, I dare you to video chat me between the hours of 9:30 and 12. Yes it’s happening again.” But the show never aired. “I turned off and unplugged his computer, went crazy looking for other hidden cams…and then had a great time,” Clementi told his buddies. One of them advised him: “You may want to take a screencap of his twitter feed if you want to go the legal route just so you have some evidence of his activity.” Clementi replied: “haha already there baby.”</p>
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<p>the media says he had contacted the ra already, and it would seem from above Tyler was aware of the first and that it had been shared…the 2 nd time he turned off the camera, continued to meet with his friend, and then chatted online after about it …of course his online posts after the 2nd time could be bravado, while his posts after the first time sound angry. does anyone know who the person he met up with was? Is there any possibility that person found out and was so upset and threatened Tyler in any way… or broke up with him? </p>
<p>spidey, why is that so hard to imagine??? and i agree with you about the promiscuous generation, i posted on the other thread, i honestly wonder if teenagers have a very blurred line about social media, sex acts etc in general, just look at facebook, tv shows etc</p>
<p>“So difficult to imagine how a kid in 2010 ends up homophobic.”</p>
<p>Difficult with the various conservative people who are railing against homosexuals? Remember, some kids in 2010 have parents who hate gays or belong to churches or political organizations that think gays are worthy of being shunned and hated.</p>
<p>agree nsm… my 2014 son went to a boarding school and has been involved in gsa the whole time…when he would return to visit his local hs and mention the club, some of his peers were appalled that his school would have “such” a club. I remember my oldest son’s hs drama teacher and what students would say about him, so cruel.</p>
<p>ridgewood patch and gawker links to Tylers posts are my only sources. Thats how I read them.</p>
<p>You can easily find the original posts of you are willing to visit the site they are held on. Don’t do it if you have young kids in the room. </p>
<p>You may read things differently than I do. I’d just like to see what we reasonably might be able to consider, considered rather than ignored or dismissed. Tyler may have been wrong in his belief that nothing could have been seen. What we have to go on is his posts, and Ravis. That’s it.</p>
<p>I’m the parent of a gay teenager, and Tyler’s death has haunted and terrified me, morning and night. I’m not much interested in the two alleged perpetrators, other than hoping they are prosecuted, defended, and punished within established law. What tears me up painfully is the impulsivity of a vulnerable teenager. A young man, full of light, hope, and talent, experiences something so terrible–in his mind–that he must end everything NOW. </p>
<p>How and when can parents talk meaningfully with a teen before he or she ever experiences such an internal crisis? Do you pick a bright, sunny day in October to have a “suicide talk” with your apparently happy teenager? To give them a script: whom to call, where to go, whatever–should they ever feel they needed to die? To tell them how a suicide would destroy the lives of people who love them? To tell them how their life would always have utmost value to you no matter what trouble they thought they were in? Any parents here ever had a talk like that with their teenager, and how did it go?</p>
<p>^^we actually have had conversations with the kids about suicide. Like any conversation it needs to be the right time/right place, but even this story will get “used” by me at least with one of the boys here one of these days. Generally all I say is that there is an entire family that has their back. That nothing could be so horrible or so awful that all of us wouldn’t move heaven and earth to support/help/etc. and that to take one’s life without turning to us first is one of the most horrible, awful thing that could be done because while they will have solved their immediate problem they will leave behind all the people feeling just as hopeless and awful as they felt because they couldn’t have helped. I tell them the ICE number on their phone isn’t just for police and ER personnel it’s for them, too, to call.</p>
<p>oh catbird… how frightening for you! in a strange way i may have been lucky, my son has had 2 friends that have threatened suicide and have called him at that time, thankfully neither did… but because of that…my son and i have talked about it and all i could say was, that no matter what, he had to know i was there… unfortunately i’m not sure that if it ever arose, that would be the over-riding thought in any child’s mind, who is dealing with that emotion… but at least we have talked.</p>
<p>I think the key may be, catbird, letting our kids know how devastated we would be if they were to take their own lives. When I was a suicidal teen and young adult, I thought that if I died, I would be relieving my family of a burden and of shame. This is how distorted my thinking was.</p>
<p>One reason I got help for my chronic depression was that after having children, I knew that if I were to commit suicide, no matter what the circumstances were, my kids would be emotionally scarred for life. I hadn’t had that feeling, though, about my parents because I had taken to heart my mother’s well meant admonitions about how ashamed she would be if I ever did something wrong.</p>
<p>I do think that it’s important to make sure that our children know that we unconditionally love them and they can turn to us even if they are in terrible trouble. </p>
<p>Still, due to the distorted thinking that people who are suicidal have, even having heard that from parents repeatedly may not be enough for some despairing people.</p>
<p>How is it hard to understand that a kid in 2010 can end up homophobic? Gays are not considered “good enough” in our society to serve in the military, have the legal rights with their life partners that straight people have, or serve as ministers in many religions. I know many people who are openly hostile toward gays. In fact, my immediate family are among them – my parents do not know that one of their grandchildren is gay, and regularly make very unpleasant jokes and comments on the topic. I certainly tell them those comments are unacceptable when I am present, but I am not going to “out” my kid to them. But you can imagine how uncomfortable family gatherings can get… And, unfortunately, my nephew who spends a lot of time with them is clearly picking up their attitudes. There are plenty of homophobic adults who are making every effort to make sure their attitudes are carried on by at least some in the next generation.</p>
<p>As far as this being a “tragedy for all”, in 10 years the two perpetrators will likely have college degrees from somewhere else, jobs, and be starting families. Tyler’s parents will have… nothing. I’m having a hard time generating sympathy for the difficulties the roommate/roomate’s friend and their families are experiencing at this time.</p>
<p>This is exactly what I have been trying to get at on this thread.</p>
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<p>I think any day is a fine day to have a suicide talk. Just like the safe sex talk and the rape talk and drunk driving talk and the ‘what happens if you run over someone while driving’ talk.</p>
<p>I know my daughter will encounter meanness, and may encounter cruelty of the same degree that Tyler was subjected to, or worse. I want her to not even think of making the same mistake that he did. </p>
<p>And when I discuss this story with her I will emphasize to her the same point that I’ve been trying to make on this thread (at the risk of offending a lot of people here): In this sad story, it is Tyler who made the biggest mistake. It is Tyler whose lack of good judgement resulted in this death. The roommate and his friend were mean and cruel but their intent was not to kill Tyler. The only person who intended to kill Tyler was Tyler himself. He’s the one who did it. It is his fault.</p>
<p>Well, yes, but is this type of advice the most helpful for young people who are considering suicide? </p>
<p>I have a daughter at a college where a group of suicides took place within a short time period last year. Much effort was made by university authorities, with expert advice, to reach out to students who might be considering suicide. None of that outreach consisted of “You’re using poor judgment; it’s your fault” messages – accurate as those messages may be. So I suspect that this is not the approach that experts currently recommend.</p>
<p>"None of that outreach consisted of “You’re using poor judgment; it’s your fault” messages – accurate as those messages may be. So I suspect that this is not the approach that experts currently recommend. "</p>
<p>No, it would not be helpful because suicidal people are likely to think that their problems are their fault, and by killing themselves, they’ll be ending their problems, taking responsibility for their problems, and helping their family/friends. I’m speaking from my own experience as a person who has considered and attempted suicide.</p>