Rutgers student commits suicide after roomate and friend tape and expose him

Parent Cafe
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<p>I agree NSM- such talk to one who is considering suicide would not be helpful. </p>

<p>I would also not say that a suicide’s action is their “fault”. I would say it is their responsibility, their bad choice and that ultimately no one else (unless directly assisted) is responsible for that final action. </p>

<p>That does not mean, however, that others’ behavior may not be somewhat causal in a person’s decision to end it all. But that still doesn’t make the other person directly responsible for the suicide, either.</p>

<p>As a suicide’s survivor, one who has suffered great survivor guilt, I have gone over and over all the issues my brother and I may have ever had, all the issues that he and my parents may have had, all the issues that he and his ex-wife may have had. All the possibly mean or insensitive things anyone of us ever said to him ever in his life. And while none of us are perfect, none of us can be blamed for what he ultimately did. Yes, he suffered from a disease. But he still did what he did. He chose it, even though not in his right mind. He chose it. Not us.</p>

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<p>momofthreeboys, your words are so on the mark that I have emailed them to myself to use as soon as the opportunity arises. Thank you.</p>

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<p>Definitely not. Just like it is unhelpful to lecture a drunk about drunk driving. That is why you talk about this on ‘a warm sunny October day’ when your child is not thinking about suicide. My kid knows that if she is drunk (or suicidal) I am available to provide unqualified support and love.</p>

<p>To be honest, I’m not big on ‘blame’ and ‘fault’ and don’t like to use that kind of language when talking about such issues. My use of such language here is a reaction (probably an overreaction) to the one-sided tenor of this thread where people were focused on blaming the death on the roommate and his actions. Instead of talking about fault and blame, I would rather talk about what can be done to prevent suicide among the young. </p>

<p>And one part of the solution is to make the young see that they do have the power to make the right choices and that they do have resources to turn to when all seems hopeless.</p>

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<p>I would be interested to know what the reps of these two kids at West Windsor High were back then. Kids don’t just turn into cruel bullies at 18. I just don’t believe it. As far as people not believing that there are homophobes out there, in my kids’ former private school there are kids who are “excused” from taking a dance class because the teacher is gay. Others have left our Episcopal church because of Bishop Robinson even though he lives about 2000 miles away! The list goes on and on. Many think gays are “sinning”…I just walk away.</p>

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<p>Exactly vicariousparent. I couldn’t agree more.</p>

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<p>Intparent, thank you. I was shocked to read what spideygirl said. Yes, there’s more acceptance in our children’s generation, and I very much hope that things will continue to change in that way in the future, but homophobia is still alive and very well. Direct and indirect, open and not so open, it’s all around if you care to open your eyes and ears. </p>

<p>My son called me today from Vienna, and what happened at Rutgers was one of the things we talked about. Obviously, he found it extremely upsetting. I have every confidence that he’s secure enough in who he is that as devastating as something like this would be if it happened to him, he’d be far more likely to want to hurt (figuratively) the people who did it, than to hurt himself. </p>

<p>He felt like he wanted to do something to try to help, so he has written to the superintendent of the school district where Tyler Clementi went to high school – who happens to be someone my son knows, for reasons I won’t go into – about some things he thinks can be done to go beyond “tolerance” to create a more affirming atmosphere for LGBT kids (whether they’re out or not). I hope the superintendent is willing to have some kind of dialogue with my son, because this is a subject J. has thought about a lot, and I think he has something to contribute.</p>

<p>PS: I’ve tried to think about how I would have felt about this kind of violation when I was 18. It’s difficult, partly because it’s hard to imagine myself having sex at that age – I was many years away from it. But I do believe that if someone had discovered my own secret about myself when I was 18, let alone broadcast it publicly (literally or figuratively), there’s a very good chance I would have done what Tyler did.</p>

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<p>Maybe because I just sent one off as a freshman, normally I don’t dwell on these sorts of things, but I just cannot fathom the pain all of those parents must be feeling and of course Tyler’s parents most of all. I think it’s touched me more than when we all “discussed” the Duke incident simply because there appears to be no apparent warning signals for any of these kids.</p>

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<p>Homophobia is deep and pervasive in our culture. However, I wouldn’t overly focus on how intense the homophobia of the two alleged perpetrators may or may not have been. I keep seeing in my eyes, the beautiful photograph of him performing a violin solo in a handsome suit. He had an active, high profile life back home–there may have been some truly vicious homophobes in his high school and his community. Perhaps the fear of humiliation before these folks in his home community was what he couldn’t bear. It begs the broad question of homophobia and its destructiveness, to focus too much on the room-mate and girl friend.</p>

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<p>Vicarious parent,
I’m sorry, but you really don’t have a clue about suicide or kids with suicidal intentions or suicide prevention. I don’t blame you, but really, the blithe manner in which you assert that having conversations on a sunny day, etc. will somehow help your child in a crisis situation are just completely overwhelmingly naive. Obviously you’ve never had a suicidal child. I have several children, and we’ve had the suicide prevention discussions multiple times over the years, with each child. My husband and I are very close to our kids. We are supportive and our kids all know they can turn to us in any situation. And yet, one of our children attempted suicide last year. Thankfully that child was not successful. That child was someone who NO ONE who knew him/her would have EVER expected this from. Not me, not his/her father, not his/her friends,not his/her professors. NO ONE. That child is mentally ill! Something happened on a particular night, and he/she IMPULSIVELY (due to undiagnosed mental illness) swallowed a bunch of pills to end his/her life! Previous talks, support, love, etc. didn’t matter at the time. Just didn’t matter. And believe me, the incident that drove that child over the edge was NOTHING compared to what poor Tyler endured.
To Spideygirl, Homophobia is alive and well all over this country, from the US government (don’t ask don’t tell), to state governments (gay marriage, repeals, new laws, more appeals), to certain religious groups, to maybe your next door neighbor. Don’t be fooled into thinking otherwise just because you yourself and your like minded friends are not homophobic. It’s a sad, sad reality that we have a long way to go towards compassion and equal rights for all.</p>

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<p>I agree that homophobia is alive and well, all over the place. As well as general brutishness. </p>

<p>I also think that there is a lot of “mental illness phobia” as well. As an American society we still think in terms of “pulling oneself up by the bootstraps”, “overcoming” the negative, etc. We shun the “crazies” on the street corner and no one really wants to publicly admit that they have sought and benefited by mental health services. ( with the possible exception of celebrities who have overcome addictions) </p>

<p>While I think most of us here on CC recognize the need for mental health care opportunities to be provided as well as for mental health care to be accepted as no different than physical health care, I do think we’re in a minority in the US population. Look at most medical insurance policies provided by employers- there’s a 1 million dollar lifetime limit for physical health care per person, but a family limit of 2000/yr, or maybe a 3K/yr, on what insurance will cover for mental health services. </p>

<p>We still, I think, as a society, think of mental illnesses such as depression, manic depression, schizophrenia, etc. more in terms of character flaw than true ailment. </p>

<p>I think the general stigma attached to mental heath issues is at least equal to the “stigma” attached to being gay.</p>

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<p>Completely agree!</p>

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<p>As far as advising college students about issues to do with suicide prevention, tolerance, coming out of the closet and so forth…I will share one initiative that I know of. It’s very different than “having a talk” with kids. </p>

<p>At NYU, each year, the entire entering freshmen and transfer class is required to attend (upon arrival on campus) a musical called NYU Reality Show (this year was at Radio City Music Hall and the previous two years was at Madison Square Garden) and the entire faculty and administration must attend as well as all RAs. This is an original musical written by current students who are hired for the summer to create the musical. The show is a series of sketches, monologues and song production numbers that are written about a myriad of issues that college students must face. This mandatory show addresses the difficult decisions and situations faced by first year students, clarifying issues, changing attitudes, and promoting healthy behaviors. It is sponsored by the Wellness Exchange at NYU and in fact, throughout the musical, the cast recites the college’s Hotline number. The Reality Show was created at NYU as a fresh and original way to give students a sense of all the ups and downs they might encounter during their college years. The piece focuses a great deal on the issues of health and wellbeing. The idea is that students respond more openly if they are presented with theater that engages them and talks about issues in a new way, rather then just talking to them about these issues. Student crisis and intervention specialists work with the student creators of the show to identify the relevant issues and content. (the cast members then write the monologues, sketches and songs about these issues) Sample topics the show has dealt with are:
Academic pressure
Anxiety
Being without one’s parents
Body issues i.e. anorexia, bulimia
Depression
Disorientation
Domestic violence<br>
Drug use
Financial worries
Gender issues
Identity crisis
Loneliness
Mania
Physical health
Race
Relationships with Professors
Roommate problems
Self-esteem
Sexuality
Sexually transmitted infections
Student alcoholism
Suicidal thoughts or acts
The need to belong </p>

<p>Problems are bluntly presented but always with the attitude that there is the possibility of hope, self-discovery, help, solutions, and, ultimately, joy. The students selected to create this show, besides being talented, are a group of individuals who are diverse in race, religion, physical appearance, economic background, sexual preferences, and personality. </p>

<p>When my D was a rising junior and again as a rising senior, at NYU, she was one of the writers/composers/performers of The NYU Reality Show, as well as the musical director. I saw the show two years ago at Madison Square Garden and thought it was so phenomenal. While it was so creative, it really hit on the issues, and the thousands of students were going wild in the audience. They were not given “talks” but there were peers who were presenting serious issues in such an entertaining fashion that they really could relate. It was pretty amazing in fact. This past summer, even though my D has been out of college for a year, a group of NYU/Tisch alums were chosen to create a new version of the show (actually the show is brand new every year), but this time for the new university NYU opened in Abu Dhabi, which not only has students who also deal with these issues, but also in a very different culture than in Manhattan. My D worked on creating this show all summer and in fact, performed it tonight in Abu Dhabi! </p>

<p>I bring this up only as an example of one way a university has tried to reach out to EVERY entering student upon arrival on campus to deal with these critical issues they will face but in a way they can relate to and really get the message. Apparently the number of calls to the Wellness Hotline has soared in the last several years since they have had this required Reality Show for all freshmen and faculty. It doesn’t solve these issues. But it is a creative way of addressing them and also making them so important that it is mandatory for all students to attend in their first days on campus. It is the finale to a major presidential welcome / matriculation type event.</p>

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<p>That show is a wonderful idea. It would be great if they would make their scripts available for other colleges to use.</p>

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<p>Fantastic Soovievt!!! This needs to go national! Right now!!!</p>

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<p>I don’t know how I managed to let this slip my mind, but it occurred to me this morning that one of D2’s really good friends from school, who graduated 2009 is a grad student at Rutgers, and is gay. When I remembered this, it never occurred to me that he was somehow involved, but when I spoke to D2 this afternoon, I did ask her if she’d heard from him. She hasn’t talked to him in a few weeks, but had already planned to go see him over her fall break in a couple of weeks. She also said he’d been posting some stuff on his FB page. All I could do was to ask her to tell him that I’d been thinking of him when she sees him. I can’t imagine what life is like for him these days. The story really begins to hit home for me in a way I hadn’t imagined earlier this week.</p>

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<p>I’ll explain. First of all, the “script” changes year to year…a cast creates it every summer. There may be a few songs or monologues that are kept but it is a new creation every year and then a new version was also written this summer for Abu Dhabi. </p>

<p>However, the person who is the Director/Creator of NYU’s Reality Show, Elizabeth (Liz) Swados, who is a Tony nominated playwright/director/composer, has written a “How-To Guide” for other colleges to create their own “Reality Show.” </p>

<p><a href=“Wellness Exchange”>Wellness Exchange;

<p>For example, for the cast to discuss on the issue of Gender and Sexuality Issues (and then create pieces to address these)…the guide says:

[quote]
Gender and Sexuality Issues</p>

<p>Gay students, lesbian students. Are you in the closet? Are you coming out? Are you ashamed? Are you homophobic? Are you excited about the new freedom for your identity? Are you ambivalent? Is there a community to which you can turn? What are the clich</p>

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<p>We often say that, but that’s not enough. One needs to treat others with respect, and ‘respect’ may mean different things to different people.</p>

<p>In this tragic case, one’s too young to die and at least one other is too young to be charged with serious crimes. A sensitive boy may need special treatment, a wrongly placed word may throw him off balance. On the other hand, the other guy might take the blow easily himself, or cares less, if he were filmed having sex. Why did the young lady allow that guy stay in her room and do that? Pick your friends wisely, or maybe pick a college wisely.</p>

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<p>In my opinion, this could have happened on any college campus, not just Rutgers and is one reason it is of interest to the CC community and not just those with an affiliation with Rutgers. I don’t know how one would choose a college to avoid these issues as there’s work to be done in society and on every college campus. I certainly would never avoid Rutgers due to this incident. </p>

<p>Heh, you could say, the admissions people should choose wisely. :D</p>

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<p>soozievt: thanks for sharing that information. that seems like a great thing way to reach young students and raise awareness.</p>

<p>neverknow56: I am very sorry to hear about your child’s experience but glad that it was not a successful attempt. You are correct, I am ‘naive’ in that I do not have first hand (or second hand) experience of suicide. I am aware of mental illness and the unpredictable way in which it can strike. I agree that not all suicide attempts can be prevented by prior counseling.</p>

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<p>I think it will matter to prospective students how Rutgers handles this incidence.</p>