You cannot know she would not have killed herself anyway, but I would think it would be a lot bigger blow to someone to have their family not bail them out as opposed to a cop who doesn’t know them and who they yelled at and swung at arrest them…
It never ends. Here’s one from my neck of the woods:
Because the police officer “felt uneasy” when the driver and passenger traded places after filling up at a gas station, one teen was shot in the head and another seriously wounded. If the PO was a better shot, they would be dead.
Yes, there ended up being a stolen gun in the car, which is why the driver fled. But everyone on the road, the kids in the car, and the officer himself were placed in great danger because the officer felt uneasy. NO obvious crime or violation leading to the chase.
Furthermore, it has been three days since the 17 year old was shot, and his parents have not been allowed to see him in the hospital. The police department is treating him like an adult and banning all visitors.
Another day, another death. http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2015/jul/25/death-choctaw-activist-rexdale-henry-neshoba-jail-/
I’m glad that his body is being sent for a private autopsy.
This doesn’t surprise me. I posted a story previously about a young, Black man who had the cops called on him for “acting suspiciously.” What was he doing? Walking home with his hands in his pockets because it was cold out. He was one of my sister’s friends and it terrifies me that he could’ve been killed for this… and he had the same terror. Luckily, the cop thought it was as ridiculous as he did and the cop was visibly and audibly embarrassed about having been dispatched to the call.
This morning I was driving to the lake to ride my bike. I had one hand on the steering wheel and one hand holding a cup of coffee. I had to change lanes and couldn’t really get my hand on the turn signal. My car alerts me if there is anyone in my blind spot; it was all good, and I changed lanes without incident.
And to think this got a woman arrested. Just really horrific.
The link in post #19 is hysterical – when he tells him the amount of the ticket 
I was reading an op ed on this general topic over the weekend. The African American author said that her brother - who is the CEO of a public company, dressed for work, driving a late model black BMW, not speeding or driving erratically - was pulled over because he resembled a recent prison escapee. Really? Do you think that in the history of driving cars in America, a white CEO in a luxury car has ever been pulled over because he resembled a recent prison escapee?
@Harvestmoon1, my favorite part is when the amazingly patient trooper asks the guy to pick up the ticket he tore up, and the guy does it, screeching the whole time; then he gets back in the car, only to hear the trooper say (quite calmly) “you missed some.”
Omg, so funny.
“And I hadn’t even told him why I stopped him yet.”
Blessed be. This trooper needs to go to every precinct in the country and show good men and women the proper way to conduct themselves.
On a more serious note: this is a prime example of white privilege. That man could do that without fear of getting shot. I don’t think most men of color would have the same confidence.
Actually CNN reported that Bland attempted suicide in either 2014 or 2013 - she checked a box that confirmed that on her intake papers at the jail but then on another form she contradicted that.
She apparently sat in jail for 3 days frantically making calls to friends and family – she could not get a phone in her cell to work so they let her make calls from the manned desk outside her cell. There are some first hand reports that she became increasingly despondent when no one would return her calls and also believed that the arrest had jeopardized her new job. I think she only needed to raise $500 (10% of the $5000 bail) in order to be released, but no one was stepping up to help her. There is speculation that this was a contributing factor.
Clearly she should never have been arrested in the first place but CNN reported that there were other individuals in the cell across from her who could see her in plain view and they saw nothing suspicious. I am assuming she must have committed suicide either in the evening hours or somehow shielded herself from view.
Yeah, the camera footage shows nothing out of the ordinary going on outside of her cell. They show snippets – would be pretty boring to watch all three days’ worth, or however long she was there; I imagine if there were anything noteworthy, we’d have seen it by now.
So:
- She was pulled over for a moving violation, albeit one that is rarely enforced
- She was vocally belligerent with the cop (bad on her - she should have complied)
- The cop took offense to her vocal belligerence (bad on him - he should have just written the ticket and left)
- The cop told her to put out her cigarette – he has no right to, right? (bad on him)
- The cop asked her to get out of her car, at this point apparently determining that she was hostile (gray area for me)
- She refused to get out of her car (gray area for me, though definitely smarter to comply…)
- He tried to forcefully remove her and failed (gray area for me)
- She finally complied after some additional bickering (finally a good decision)
What happened then? There was some sort of struggle to get her into cuffs, right?
Nobody has really put much of the responsibility on her for her actions in this, so I’ll play devil’s advocate: had she simply complied, she would not have been arrested. Heck, she had several chances to turn her attitude around and comply before it got to the point of being arrested, and each time common sense alluded her. Pragmatically speaking, we all should know enough by now that when a cop tells you to do something, aside from harming yourself or doing something very obviously against the law, you should probably do it. Again, pragmatically speaking, it is best to not piss off a police officer.
Really? You know that for sure?
Unless she had a warrant out, yes, she would have had her ticket, or warning, and been on her way. 99.999% probability anyway. You very, very rarely hear of cops harming people who did absolutely nothing to deserve it. And when you consider tens or hundreds of thousands are pulled over daily, maybe more… you must admit that the chances are very slim that anything would have happened if she had simply complied. (and he could have just written her the ticket, obviously… or not pulled her over. plenty of blame for him also.)
Sorry, I cant get with a few posters on this thread saying she shouldve complied. She eventually did get out of the car, so why did she have to be arrested? Why do WE always have to be submissive to cops? When you spend your whole life being followed, being accused, being treated differently, being the only,…why do you think she didnt have the right to exercise her freedom of speech? Why is it that Cliven Bundy can have a standoff with federal agents, along with others brandishing their guns, and nothing happens? Why is it that gun owners can bring guns to a rally for our President? Why is it that folks in Texas can openly carry, and antagonize the cops? If we did that we would be shot instantly.
Oh and @missypie dont get me started on the driving while black stories, especially driving while black in a nice car, that you have fully earned and worked your tail off for. I can give you so many stories of us being stopped in nice cars.
For those of you who want gun legislation passed, encourage Blacks to start buying, carrying, getting CC licenses. The laws would be changed quick fast and in a hurry. It is the reason Reagan passed some gun control measures n California.
that’s where I lose the thread – what did she do once she did get out of the car, to deserve to be arrested?
She struggled to not get out of her car… but then she did. If her initial struggle was his reason for arresting her, that’s pretty weak IMO. So I’m wondering if she did something else once she was out of the car. If she did not, then I don’t think he should have arrested her - even after the fussing.
It would have been so easy for either of them to defuse the situation early on. But if she presented no further threat once she was out of the car – this is me talking, not the devil’s advocate – then I do not see an arrest being rightly made.
“She was vocally belligerent to the cop”
I don’t think she was belligerent. The officer actually asked her why she was upset. When she answered (a lot more calmly than some might have, I thought), that’s belligerent? The cop was trying to incite her. It’s as plain as the nose on your face he was trying to get her angry.
I’ve heard of people pulled over for not moving over when there’s a police car behind, but never the other way around. This officer was trying to create trouble the minute he saw her.
The cop pins her down off camera, has his knee in her upper back (remember Freddie Gray?) and she is vocally worried that he had broken or dislocated her shoulder. Her arm is numb and she can’t reach back so he can cuff her. This goes on and on. What is he arresting her for? “Resisting arrest”. At this point there is no primary offense that he could be arresting her for that she could have resisted (unless you accept disrespecting a cop as a primary offense).
He claims that she kicked him but also says that he wasn’t hurt. If you watch the 50+ minute long video that has bad editing showing the same car passing by over and over, he clearly says he wasn’t hurt. Her arrest papers show that she was arrested for “assaulting an officer of the peace”. She wasn’t told the charge for days.
@prezbucky - you missed the reason why she was pulled over. He had just issued a warning to another driver (serious charge - no insurance - but it was a young while woman and a non-violent encounter). He sped off and did a u turn to follow Sandra Bland. He followed very close behind her so she moved over to the right so he could pass. THAT is when she didn’t use her blinker.
There were a couple of times where she could have acted completely submissively and maybe, just maybe, emerged from the encounter without a damaged shoulder and resting in a jail cell.
But I say 1 - he was wrong to pull her over. Everything follows from this so her death, from WHATEVER cause, lies at his door.
2 - Whoever put her in a jail cell should lose their job. That person, and whoever set her bail (without listening to her story) are also complicit in her death.
3 - Don’t get distracted by bail issues. It was the weekend and her family were more than 1000 miles away. Maybe they couldn’t wire money until the banks reopened on Monday morning. By then, it was too late.
So he was hot after the “no insurance” stop and she was in his way. I see.
That’s a good question. But it applies to all of us no? I can only tell you what I tell my children, both of whom are driving now. I tell them that if a police officer stops you be cooperative and polite. That is your best chance of driving away quickly with perhaps only a warning. I tell them this because that has been my own experience. Unfortunately, they have the power to make your life miserable by writing you an expensive ticket that can put points on your license or worse they have the power to arrest you. And yes some of these officers do have attitudes and think they are “lords of the land”, but you handle them accordingly. I would rather go on my way and file a complaint with the Chief of Police after the fact than argue with an officer who is going to delay me or worse.
I certainly am not saying that you follow instructions that are clearly out of bounds, but if an officer tells me to get out of the car (and I am not on a deserted, dark road) I would do so. If that officer infringes on my rights I will take that up with the appropriate authority after the fact.
I had a cop stop me for failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign. It was a strange intersection, very small, at the entrance to a small national park’s parking lot, there was no one around, and when you stop at the stop sign your rear tires end up on top of a speed bump which is just weird.
I had no idea why he pulled me over and he said, “oh, you just BLEW through that stop sign”.
For a brief moment I almost said, “Are you f@$%^ing kidding me?”, but some angel held my tongue. Whew. I got a warning. He was one of those types though. Who knows what would have happened if I had been “honest” with him, or a POC, or both?
It made me want to reinstall my dash cam but I’m too lazy.
If you installed a dash cam, you could post crash vids on youtube. Title them “Car accidents NOT in Russia” – that would make them unique. hehe