What gave the cop the right to tell her to put out her cigarette which she was smoking in her own car? Last I knew there is no law against that. After she refused he told her to get out of the car. What reason did he have to order her out of her car? And when she refused to get out of the car he said he was going to get her out and used force to get her out of her car.
Ms. Bland did nothing wrong. The officer is 100% to blame. He should be fired immediately and never allowed to be a police officer anywhere again.
Has anywhere here ever been stopped by a policeman and asked to get out of their car? I certainly never have, nor has my husband. My S got pulled over for a traffic violation a few weeks ago and was not asked to get out of the car. He was given a warning and after went on his way.
IMO, there is no law against talking back to a police officer.
This is another one of those situations when it may not be prudent to do what it is within your rights to do. It is wrong that black people have to be so much more careful about their interactions with police than white people, but that’s certainly what I would advise a young black person to do–be polite and compliant. Some of you may have seen this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
Theoretically, cops should not abuse their power, but unfortunately there are bad ones out there who do.
Who have powers? Cops. Who can arrest us? Cops. Citizens? We don’t have power, and we have seen plenty of cases where cops cover each other to get away from wrong actions.
That being said, I am so glad that I did not encounter a bad cop. My mom ALWAYS told me to comply to police officer unless I have reason to point out clear violation of laws.
No question that that order was out of bounds. He was probably hot before he pulled her over – in fact, I bet that was a large reason why he did pull her over – and their interaction made him more angry and forgetful of his rights as a cop and her rights to talk back and smoke (as repugnant as they may have been to him at the time, or to us in hindsight). He might be a nice guy off the job and usually on the job too, but he seems to have had a hot hair up his you-know-what during that stop.
DH was pulled over a couple of months ago for driving too fast on a city street. I was in the car with him. I have NO idea why he did this, but he opened his door to start to get out. I think he thinks it is being “nice” or something, but the police tend to see this as threatening. Immediately the cop shrieked, “GET BACK IN THE CAR” on his loudspeaker.
DH was respectful and got a ticket. I’ve been with him before many times when he was able to talk his way out of it, but I think he blew that when he attempted to get out of the car.
Of course not. But as we see in this situation, one can be “within one’s rights” all the way to the grave. It’s not a smart move.
^ But he is the trained professional and is not supposed to act in that manner no matter who he has pulled over.
As another poster said, everything that followed after he ordered her to put her cigarette out is on him 100% and I am giving him the benefit of the doubt regarding his reason for pulling her over - which I believe was because she was driving while black.
Actually @prezbucky the stop started off just fine - he walked up to the passenger side window and said “hello ma’am” and then asked for her license and registration. He then asked her to give him a few minutes and he went back to the car and wrote her a ticket. The trouble started when he returned to the car and asked her if she was o.k. Then she told him she was irritated about being stopped for something so trivial and a negative verbal exchange ensued. He was then looking for a fight and told her to put out the cigarette. Things then escalated quickly. The officer clearly became unreasonable and “pulled rank” basically exhibiting a “well I will show you who’s boss” kind of attitude and things went from bad to worse.
Was the officer in the wrong for reacting the way he did? Absolutely. I think what some of us are trying to say is that we all know some of these guys have attitudes and like control. So why rattle their cages when being pulled over?
^^^I agree with all of the above (post #47), but again, being right isn’t necessarily going to protect one from horrible consequences. I would ALWAYS advise that people be respectful to police officers, even if it isn’t mandated by law and even if the cops are “not supposed” to act in that manner. It doesn’t excuse the officers one iota, but why would anyone want to tempt fate to see if their particular police officer is actually a loose cannon. I know I won’t!
We all know that officers don’t have right to tell the drivers to stop smoking.
However, I would rather avoid any kinds of confrontation-whose odds are against me 99%-with police.
“but why would anyone want to tempt fate to see if their particular police officer is actually a loose cannon. I know I won’t!”
But this women did nothing wrong. He asked her if she was upset and she answered him. Then, for no reason, he asked her to put out her cigarette and she said no and then he ordered her out of the car.
Seems to me that because everyone now is supposed to kowtow to a police officer no matter what - they believe they can do anything they damn well please, like they are the Gestapo. No wonder they are all on a power trip.
Agree @emilybee but the problem is that to confront them means a lot of hassle and more of our time than most of us are willing to give. So yes, we could all decide to do that and risk escalating a stop to an arrest, but most of us just take the path of least resistance and go on our merry way. Whether that is “right” or not is another question. You are correct in that we are not encouraging a change in their behavior by not calling them out on it, but how many of us really want to run the risk of turning a routine traffic stop into an arrest?
I have gotten this far in life without encountering problems with the law, and personally I have to model the behavior that I encourage my children to emulate.
You know the really sad thing? Good cops hate the bad cops as much as we do but they’re afraid to say anything because of the power structures within cop circles.
When I was in high school, my then-boyfriend worked midnights at a local gas station and I’d hang out with him there on weekends. We had cops come in all the time because, frankly, they had nothing better to do. My ex had had some petty run-ins with cops but they knew that he was, at his core, a good kid who just had absolutely no guidance. He was homeless on and off throughout high school and after and often had to skip high school to work (no, this was not on the up-and-up). The cops that would come and hang out with us would have very frank conversations about how they wanted better relationships with the communities and wanted to help people- especially non-violent people- who just needed little nudges.
I do not and never will believe that these cops are in the minority. However, I do think that they are relatively powerless to change the climate in order to remove bad cops. I also don’t think that this was just the result of my little safe town either. When I worked at a DV center in Lansing (a much more poor and crime-ridden area) and interacted with cops there, they had the same general view as the cops from my home town.
I’m also aware of the rhetoric of “not all cops are bad” but something needs to change drastically or the good ones will be pushed out- if for no other reason than this was not what they became a police officer to do (to watch injustice by their “brothers and sisters” rather than try to protect people).
I have been pulled over for speeding a couple of times and I have argued with the cops. I said I wasn’t speeding. I wouldn’t back down. I wouldn’t do it.
I was driving to work at 5 in the morning. It was dark. At first, I was the only person on the road. Then I saw this car speeding behind me in my read view mirror. I couldn’t make out the car. I pulled off the road. The car pulled up behind me. That was pretty scary. Then the cop turned on those police lights. I had no idea a police car was following me.
The cop walked over and accused me of speeding. I argued with him.
He was going on and on…we argued.
Finally, I said, “Look. You were driving faster than I was. And you didn’t pull me over. You were driving so fast, I pulled off the road so you could go by”.
The cop said, “Ok. I am letting you off with a warning. Don’t speed again. It’s dangerous”. Then he left.
I wonder what would have happened if I wasn’t a middle aged white guy driving in a nice area.
I feel terrible for Ms Bland’s family, her friends, everyone at her alma mater, the healthcare workers who have cared for her in the past, and frankly, anyone who has to live in fear of being pulled over for a minor traffic offense and having to fear for one’s life if you so much as question the reason for the stop. Any stop that results in a death creates a lifetime of hurt for that person’s family and friends, as well as the possibility of a multi-million dollar liability to be assumed by the taxpayers of that municipality. Both of these are ample reasons, IMO, that: 1) officers should be re-trained as to best practices in stops each year, 2) car and body cameras should be required so each stop can be recorded, 3) citizens should be trained as well regarding best behavioral practices when stopped, and 4) much closer monitoring during the first days in custody should be required. An hourly check simply isn’t enough. There should be zero tolerance for deaths in custody.
