No one said she did anything wrong. She did not comply. Look where that got her.
And of course, It’s NOT RIGHT. If someone wants to test the waters, suffer the consequences, and sue after the fact, I actually applaud them. I’m not willing to put myself out there at my physical peril to prove a point. But I’ve never been the brave type. I would have put out my cigarette even though he had no business asking me. Because I would be wondering if he was a lunatic who would shoot me if I didn’t. I would especially be thinking those things if I were a black female.
This policeman should be fired. Her family should and probably will sue. I think that’s the only way to change the culture which exists in many departments or at least in the mindset of specific individual officers. They have to know that if they behave inappropriately, they will suffer the consequences. That hasn’t always been the case, but I think the tide is turning. Like most social change, it unfortunately doesn’t happen as immediately as enlightened people would prefer. The bricks holding up the walls of injustice have to come down one by one. That’s just the reality.
I agree the officer proved that he was a hot head when she dared to tell him she thought the stop was unnecessary. He didn’t like his judgment being questioned. He lost his temper and acted like a jerk. But I do wonder where were her family and friends for the 3 days that she sat in that cell frantically making calls. CNN played the last message she left on a friends cell phone. It was at least her second call to that person and you could tell by her voice that she was despondent.
The jail personnel staffing the desk allowed her to use their phone and reported she called many people numerous times. While a response to those calls would not have altered the arrest, it might have changed the ultimate outcome for Bland.
Yes, we have allowed this to happen and allowed police to treat people in this manner. I think it is counter productive to pass on the message that one must kowtow to the police regardless. It is that behavior which is responsible for the power trip cops are on.
I watched the tape of the incident, and I never saw the assault which was the allegation for which she was arrested. I doubt she attacked him - at least without provocation. So she was in jail for 3 days for not using her blinker. 3 freaking days. Then they kept her by herself in a cell for 3 days. Wouldn’t you be despondent?
Edited to add: our justice system is going to have to come to grips with the fact that what has historically been “resisting arrest” may, because of all the unnecessary deaths of blacks, have turned into pure self defense.
I think whether the office is right or wrong the key is to get out of the situation alive. My mom always said, when you’re dead, you’re not alive to argue with people. It doesn’t matter if you’re right because you’re dead.
My kid got a traffic ticket, I don’t think she argued with police even though she was right. She fought in court and won.
I never taught her that, but I’m glad she fought back.
Bland wasn’t really arguing. He asked her why she was upset so she told him. If he didn’t want to hear the truth he should not have asked. That’s why I am 100% convinced that he was just trying to pick a fight. He was deliberately inciting. It verged in my mind on entrapment.
She resisted him when he was trying to forcibly remove her from her car for not obeying his order for her to put out her cigarette. That is what the officer said was “the assault.”
Well technically you may be correct @emilybee but practically I am going to disagree with you. If you have a 17 or 18 year old teenager with their whole future in front of them the last thing you want to have is a situation where they are arrested and have a criminal record. Their future is then jeopardized. So you teach them to “think” themselves out of bad situations unless there is no other way out. I like the result that Dr. Google posted above relating to his D. You don’t send the message to your children to “lie down” when someone wrongs them, but you teach them to do it in a way that minimizes the risk of harm to themselves or their reputations. That’s one reason we have court systems.
If my or my family’s rights are infringed upon I will not hesitate to file a complaint or take the matter further up the line. But I am not going to take on an officer armed with a gun, taser, handcuffs and the power to arrest me. I am not going to advise my children to do that either.
I used the term “argue” loosely. From the radio show that I listened to Bland talked back to the police. Perhaps she should not talk back. I don’t condone the officer and know full well that some police officers are not following the rules. But what does it make to this person. She’s dead and that’s very sad.
I think everyone should make contact with officers like they’re grizzly bears: Sit professionally (make yourself seem as big as possible in front of the bear), keep your voice firm (make loud noises towards the bear), and try not to upset the officer (walk away slowly from the bear).
Post #69, I normally have a healthy disrespect toward authority. I have to be careful I don’t let that out when I talk to Police officer so that’s good advice.
Ok, let’s be fair here. Let’s say your 13-year old teenager does something you think is wrong. The teenager says to you in almost a taunting way “you seem irritated”. You respond, yes I’m irritated. I pulled over because you were coming up behind me so I was just getting out of your way.
Your teenager responds, Are you done?
Think about it honestly. How would you react to that? If that were my kid, I’d put in a time out for being rude. But in this case, Bland is not the one talking back, the policeman is. He’s trying to elicit anger.
This is why I think this officer was trying to make her mad. He wasn’t de-escalating - he was deliberately escalating a confrontation. I don’t know but I have a suspicion it wouldn’t make any difference what she did. He kept prompting. He didn’t get her to yell or scream, so he went another route and started on the cigarette.
He asked her to not smoking, she refused.
I went out on a date in a red Corvette, all I did was looked over to my right and the officer pulled my car over. Seem innocent enough but that’s what happened. I was not provoking.
No reason but my date was annoyed. He rented the car so I don’t remember he got a ticket or not. The guy was from Australia and was here for a few weeks. I was not ordered out but I think my date was.
I have counseled my S to be cooperative and civil. I have told him he **does not[/] have to be obsequious. Maintain your dignity, but don’t give them any reason to accuse you of being belligerent. Comply with all lawful orders. Don’t make any sudden motions that can later be used as an excuse for the “I feared for my life” cop to get gun exuberant. Address the cop as “officer”. You do not have to smile or chit-chat unless the officer is being friendly and respectful. Otherwise, be calm and business-like. Control your temper at all cost.
Yes, it is galling that rallying Teaparty/“libertarian”/2nd Amendment Bubbas can brandish multiple high-powered weapons with ammo magazines strapped across their chests at Presidential appearances, and essentially dare anyone to say something about it. But, the black man standing in his own home, challenging the motivations of the officer that entered it illegally? When he gets hauled off to jail for “contempt of cop”, well…he obviously had it coming, because those Constitutional rights weren’t written with him in mind in the first place. I tell S to remember that, though he may be “privileged” in a number of ways, the privilege of assumed Constitutional protections is still not one he can necessarily count on.
I guess I would expend that to compliance with orders as long as they don’t put you in danger, or constitute a confession to a crime. For example, if the officer tells you to put out your cigarette, it’s probably not a good plan to refuse, even though you may know that he doesn’t have the authority to tell you to do so.
Given the number of police vs the number of the non-police public, wouldn’t it be just spiffy if we could train the police to only give lawful orders? Wouldn’t that be really cool if the police comply with the law. So much more efficient.
I think that employees in most/all professions follow the bell curve…a few terrible, most okay, a few wonderful. The thing that distinguishes the terrible and below average cops is that they have the ability to kill you and in most cases, can do so without criminal or civil prosecution or even without losing their jobs.