Sandwich Generation - Elderly Parents and College Kids

mstee · February 23, 2005, 12:59pm

Nedad-- thanks for the thread. A lot of us are going through things like this.

My dad, who is not very communicative called on Sunday in Nov., with the help of a friend to say that he was in the hospital and scheduled to have surgery on Tues. for “a mass in his colon.” Later, I found out he had been in the hospital since the Wednesday before. He had been feeling very weak and his friend was trying to get him to a doctor’s appt. and he couldn’t make it to the car. He collapsed, the friend called 911. He was taken to the hospital in an ambulance. He wrote a will and had his friend witness it on the way to the hospital.

Before this episode, he had been housebound and in pain for two weeks, unable to go anywhere, but didn’t tell anyone! He finally told his friend when he ran out of food. It was an upsetting and anxious time for me. . . Why is it so hard for some people to ask for help. And it isn’t just my dad. I just found out that an acquaintance of mine thought he was having a heart attack and so he drove himself to the hospital. Crazy.

I spent Thanksgiving vacation in San Diego and lookied into a couple of assisted living places while I was there, and found one for $1900/mo (base price–all the extras get added on), that didn’t seem bad, and one really nice one for $3500/4000 a month. Yeah, it kind of reminded of the college search, finding the “right fit” and such. But, you know, I don’t think for some there really is any “right fit.” Everything is some sort of big compromise. Anyway, my dad won’t even consider that option right now. Too much money, for one. Doesn’t want to be controlled by other people, I think, for another. One of the problems is that he is just not a very social person. Though he does have friends, he doesn’t like the kind of “activities” atmosphere that seems to prevail in these places (rather like one of my sons). He just wants to be left alone with his computer. He is an almost retired physicist, keeps in touch with a couple of people from work (and still gets sent work, small jobs, to do via the computer) and keeps scores for his golf buddies (though he has had to quit golfing).

He is very sharp, happy to say. When he was in the hospital after his surgery, though, he was very foggy. And his personality just shut down. He was very non-communicative with his doctors. Pretty scary. He did not enjoy his stay in the skilled nursing facility after the surgery, where many of his peers were in various stages of befuddledness. It really bothered him that the man he ate breakfast with would talk to him in a really soft voice that he couldn’t hear and then look at him pleadingly.

He says Bing Crosby did it right–played 18 holes of golf and then collapsed and died on the golf course. Obviously, that scenario is not even possible for him. I don’t know what is going to happen. I think it is important for him to stay in his own environment in San Diego as long as possible. If things get really bad, I may be looking into someplace here he could stay. I know that would have to be a nursing home situation if it got to that point. As long as he can, he likes where he is.

nedad · February 23, 2005, 1:04pm

What a wonderful, generous group of people you all are. Patient, I will look for that book - my wife has read everything by Anne Morrow Lindbergh but didn’t know about her daughter’s book.

I see that the money issue was finally raised. Where I am in the northeast (hence the “nedad”), if you need no help (since “assisted living” really supplies only very minimal help in these parts), it’s at least $48,000 a year. And as a poster above said, often they begin charging for all the “extras.” Also, after this broken hip, she may be ineligible for many of the assisted living places here because they want people who are totally, 100% ambulatory. The homes with real assistance are more like $80,000.

My mother did sell her big house a few years ago and moved into a much smaller rental, so the moving won’t be a huge production…but isn’t it something that assisted living costs more per year than Harvard! :)

EDIT
You posted as I was posting, mstee…I understand what you are going through and wish you the best of luck.

heidi · February 23, 2005, 1:06pm

Ah, Nedad, I don’t know what to say. My sympathies about your difficult situation. My dad went through the stage you’re in now when my grandmother, on a cruise with my parents in the Gulf of Mexico, fell and broke her hip. The cruise ship dumped them on shore into an amazingly decrepit Mexican hospital and sailed off, never to contact them again. They had to call an air taxi for 21,000 dollars [maybe it was 17,000, I can’t remember] which flew them to a hospital in a bad neighborhood of Miami. My grandmother lingered there for weeks while my parents, getting an unexpected immersion into the Cuban culture in Miami, stayed nearby. Then my grandmother moved to a rehab place near my parents’ home for months more. I know the paperwork [and then suing the cruise line] took a lot of my dad’s time. 
[And it wasn’t even his mom, it was my mom’s mother!]

My grandmother recovered completely from her broken hip and lived alone for quite a few years more before recently dying of a stroke. So… nedad, there is hope, your mother could recover completely! On another note, it is amazing that one sibling so often bears the entire brunt of care for elderly parents. It is a wonderful reflection upon you [but difficult] that it is you in your family.

nedad · February 23, 2005, 1:11pm

Omigosh, heidi, what a story!!! What a terrible, terrible thing to have happen! Thank heaven it had a reasonably happy ending!

Anyone ever watch “The Sopranos?” There was a substory in which Paulie put his mother into the same expensive, fancy nursing home that Tony had put HIS mother in, only to have her subject to high-school-style cliques with “mean girls” (in this case, an older woman, Cookie, and her friend). It was hysterical…but I really fear for my mom. She had a rich and fulfilling life, did important work, very intelligent, etc., but is getting a little weird in her old age…overly sensitive, etc. I can see her doing the same thing Paulie’s mom did — crying, making trouble. Sigh.

heidi · February 23, 2005, 1:26pm

lol, nedad, sounds like my mother, too. [I love “The Sopranos” but I’m looking more forward to the new “Deadwood” season.] 
Issues with aging parents are really, really difficult.

katwkittens · February 23, 2005, 1:44pm

Cost. That was another reason my folks and gmom moved to FL rather than to NC with me. Before they and I moved last year, we researched the different assisted facilities in different locations. My folks had also looked in So Cal and NJ while they were traveling. They had Vegas prices and facilities to use as a reference point. The NC (Raleigh, Wilmington and Charlotte area) prices were 3X what they were paying in NV and 2x that of FL. The prices in NJ were even more for the same level of care, quality of surroundings, locale, and additional care opportunities.

We also looked for facilities that had upgradable resources if her health took a turn for the worse and what the prices would be if that happened. We put her on waiting lists for the “best” ones and when they had an opening, only then did my folks starting looking for a house in that area. I figured if they are paying anywhere between $24000 and $60000 a year we should have some price comparisons. And as far as price, we found it is negotiable. Some require deposits, others a long-time committment, some a buy-out to leave, so my folks handled that. They are happy with the outcome financially.
And with their freedom to travel.

Kat

jamimom · February 23, 2005, 1:51pm

Great idea to start this thread. Yes, Nedad, and all, it is happening here as well. Both moms in their early 80’s and issues arising. One with enough money to take care of her needs, but is not doing well living alone, the other who is independent, but needs monetary subsidies to stay independent.

The knee surgery is a tricky issue. Once the surgery is done, if successful and if the followup therapy is strictly adhered to, the results can be miraculous, but do not count on a cantakarous old woman who has not been doing much of what she is told, a comfort monger to recover for a long time or even fully. A rehab place is really a necessity as the workout is rigorous. Many of my friends who have gone through this with their parent, says it is pure hell, with the parent crying and begging to leave as the workouts are painful. And Jane Brody is not exaggerating about the pain of the procedure. I know several sedentary types who have not recovered from this surgery done over a year ago. You really need to assess the type of person who is going to undergo the surgery. If they are likely to quit the painful, time consuming, tedious follow up stint in the rehab facility, it may not be a good option. That is why MIL has not had her surgery. But now we have a large elderly woman who is limited in movements as her knees have deteriorated further. She is in constant pain, and has to limit what she does to what pain she could take, and I don’t know what will happen when the knees do finally go. But she has not been cooperative about any suggestions from us or anyone. I think she wants us to drop everything and move into her town and take turns being her live in. Doesn’t want any outside help–won’t hire anyone unless she knows him, doesn’t know anyone fit to hire. So where does it leave her. In a mess. H goes there regularly and cleans up, shops, does repairs, etc. Not a good situation.

ohio_mom · February 23, 2005, 6:35pm

We have the situation of my father (88) living with us - no assets, in a wheelchair because he refused to do the knee surgery rehab (all doctors are stupid), and pretty much blind because he thinks that looking at a red light will break up the cataract. We had my mom with us too until she passed last June after a severe stroke on memorial day. They moved in with us about seven years ago.

Since my only brother died when I was a teenager, I don’t have a lot of backup support available in my family - my sister in law spells me for a few days once a year. We had to do college visits in shifts - H and S did some, S and I did others.

I can tell you that (at least in my case) it is very hard on your marriage to have an elderly parent / parents in the house. If you can make time for yourself and your spouse to do things together, that will help a lot. If the money is there to get someone in to help out for respite - that’s great. Caring for Mom is wonderful, but you absolutely have to care for yourself in the process. I must admit that I’m not doing a very good job of that right now.

jmmom · February 23, 2005, 7:41pm

ellemenope - another thought/qx re the $$ issue. My research in northern NE showed a monthly cost of $4000-4500 for a quality place. Some do work on a “menu” of services where you get a minimum # of hours of personal care (assistance with meds… whatever you need), but that was the general cost level. We’ve heard, but are still checking out, that the prevailing cost level is quite a bit lower in Az. Where are the $8000 facilities?

ellemenope · February 23, 2005, 10:17pm

jmmom–reread the article. Assisted living costs in Madison, WI were 14,400 per year for Alzheimers’ dad and 40,770 per year for mom who required more care. Total $55,000 or $4,600 per month. Total expenses for the couple were $74,000 per year (includes meds not covered by insurance, etc.) or 6K +. Not $8,000 per year. Sorry for misinformation.

PS: heard you met my hubby today for lunch.

berurah · February 23, 2005, 10:57pm

nedad,

We have not had experience with this (one of the extremely few upsides of coming from a highly dysfunctional family which disowns/disinherits you ), but I did want to tell you that I can only imagine how difficult and stressful this must be on you and your family. Taking in an ailing parent is a HUGE commitment and its effects ripple widely. I hope that all works out well for you and your family. I’ll be thinking about you and wishing the best for you all. ~berurah

over30 · February 23, 2005, 11:26pm

I sympathize with all of you, having been there myself. It is so difficult and heartbreaking. One parent left and so far he’s still independent.

Who would like to educate me on long-term care insurance? We’ve been talking about it, but aren’t sure what to do.

archermom · February 23, 2005, 11:54pm

Over30,
H & I picked up a policy through John Hancock last April. Fortis was bought out by John Hancock. Check out their website. We included both nursing and home care with a restoration of benefits clause, an elimination or wait period of 90 days, and compound inflation coverage.

dke · February 24, 2005, 7:09am

We’ve been toying with the idea of getting long term policies, but I read somewhere that until you’re at least 50 its not worth the $$…bday’s in October so time to think about it!

backhandgrip · February 24, 2005, 7:25am

Just to mention, there are resources available to help the elderly if they are on their own. Locally, handicapped buses will come and take an elderly person to doctor appointments, shopping for goceries, even to the post office if necessary. They will help the person from their front door, even carry a wheelchair to the van , and there is no cost.Meals on wheels will deliver meals. If an elderly person is in a difficult position and has no family to help and seeks help, a caseworker is assigned to assess what is necessary. Help is there.

massmom · February 24, 2005, 7:47am

Sorry to hear of everyone’s situation. My FIL passed away about five years ago, at 74. He had spent two to three years in a nursing home and had long term care insurance. Since my MIL is eight years younger, it was difficult for her and all of us, to care for him and watch him decline while she was still very active. She is still doing well, spending winters in FLA and travelling summers.

My parents both passed away fairly young, my father in a fire at 65 and my mother of lung cancer last Nov. at 69. We are still cleaning out her house, which is hard. As terrible as both their deaths were, they were quick. My mother was gone six months after her diagnosis. I have three siblings who are all wonderful. I can’t imagine being on my own or even one of two, which my kids are. My mother was stubborn up to the end, insisting that her windows be replaced (she got a no payment, no interest credit card from home depot) the day before she died. One of the last things she did was vote. She couldn’t walk into the polls, so they brought the ballot out to her. I don’t know if she ever knew that her candidate lost.

She died at home, with hospice and the four of us providing care. Although it was what she wanted, I don’t recommend it lightly. It was hard for us to give meds and watch her decline, even though my sister is a nurse. I was with her when she passed.

nedad · February 24, 2005, 8:25am

Massmom, I don’t know what to say - it’s just amazing, things people have been through, and what they’ve done.

Ohiomom, you too. I am sorry that right now you do not feel as if you were doing a good job, but I’ll bet other people would look at it differently - it’s wonderful that you are doing it at all – and for 7 years!

Thanks, Berurah, for your kind thoughts. We too have a dysfunctional family on one side, the whole “disowned” routine, so the only “upside” is that there are two less elderly parents to worry about - if that sounds vicious and horrible, these people who disowned us for no good reason have four other children living close by who will take care of them. I never even met them, and neither did my children, so that’s that.

Yes, good programs help - for a time my mom did the Meals on Wheels thing, etc. Never be afraid to ask for help. There are wonderful people out there willing to help (on a sliding scale, of course! )

marite · February 24, 2005, 8:33am

Talking about Meals on Wheels, is a nurse coming in regularly an option?

dke · February 24, 2005, 8:47am

There’s a line of work now called ‘eldercare coordinators’ who, for a fee, will help elders who’s children aren’t nearby…they can do an assortment of things and can be invaluable…there’s a website that can be googled…they all have social work backgrounds…of course, we hired one for my mother who she promptly fired…what can you do?..

backhandgrip · February 24, 2005, 9:16am

The thing is, there comes a point when parents become the ‘morbidly elderly’. This is the point where they need their family. They simply aren’t capable of hiring help themselves. There needs to be a family member supervising care -or have the family member institutionalized or have a caseworker. This is a sad time and can become a nightmare of cost . I commend NEDAD for taking in his mom at this difficult time. His mom was there for him, now he is there for her.

Sandwich Generation - Elderly Parents and College Kids

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