<p>lol, have the family member institutionalized! That says just how I feel about this ! Meant to say, ‘elderly institutionalized’ ! Guess that was a Freudian slip! lol</p>
<p>I think I have a little insight into institutionalizing the elderly as this was recently done to my uncle. I am not in favor of it.
Although old folks may be in an assisted living facily there may come a time when mom or dad needs to move to the ‘big building’ or the nursing facility. At this point all medical rights are surrendered to the facility. Many of the rules as to how these nursing homes give care are standardized or are governed by law. It isn’t just a matter of having a living will. Whereas at home you may have your mom or dad or inlaw visiting a family doctor, in a home there is a virtual parade of specialty doctors and staff the home will insist your relative must see- everything from having toe nails clipped by a podiatrist, even if he doesn’t need one, having her hair done too regularly by a hair stylist and/or having a ball thrown at them by a recreational therapist. Sometimes dear all dad is so out of it or tired he just doesn’t want that ball thrown at him, but it is, and he is charged for it. Our expereince is that nursing homes will do everything possible to bankrupt their clients. They will insist expensive no generic medications are given, even if family members can see no improvement or benefit. T</p>
<p>The living will does not really kick in until the elderly is incapacitated. Also, do be prepared that grandma may be forgotten from time to time if she cannot feed herself. We have tiptoed in to see a tray in front of our Uncle and a lack of interest or concern by anyone that he be fed. And the food maybe be inferior, or not what he ever liked but , ‘there for his own good’. And as for bringing in a nice warm blanket for grandpa in that chilly air-conditioning , that may just wind up next door or lost the next day, so don’t even bother. It’s all sad and frustrating. I say good for your relative to dismiss care she thought inferior, while she still can.Our parents, those of us who cared about us and did well for us, deserve better, deserve our attention and participation.Before we dismiss and warehouse them, think carefully and choose wisely.</p>
<p>Thank you for that insight, BHG. I too worry about the full-care facility for the reasons you cite (I mean AFTER assisted living, as you said).</p>
<p>I would not judge anyone else who had to put a parent in a situation like that; I know there are lots of people who love their parents, but cannot do otherwise. So these comments only apply to me, with no judgment implied.</p>
<p>Anyway, I am thinking of just having some day-time extra help. My mother has a nice nest egg, probably around $250,000, plus years ago she set up college accounts to help her grandchildren, and gave other money away to family members. She also has medicare, private “medi-gap” insurance, social security, some sort of home health insurance that I haven’t fully looked at yet, and a pension. From what I understand, at an institution they take great (or so-so) care of you *while the money lasts<a href=“and%20the%20money%20doesn’t%20last%20long%20at%20the%20%5Bi%5Dal%20a%20carte%5B/i%5D%20prices!”>/i</a>. Maybe someone else as had a better experience, but I haven’t heard of any. I do not care about her money and don’t need it, but she herself has said repeatedly that she wants to leave something for the grandchildren. It would just make her a nervous wreck to see the money slipping away at a superfast rate. Besides, she could live another 15 years and outlive the money (in a nursing home).</p>
<p>If she stays with me, we can have people come in who may be covered by thhat home health insurance, or she can use her pension or social security checks (around $2500 month total).</p>
<p>I know I am giving a lot of detail here, especially monetary amounts, but what I want is for anyone who hasn’t thought about it yet, to consider their OWN futures. Consider how much of a “burden” you want to be on your kids (though mom isn’t a burden she’s a blessing 
). Maybe make some plans now! </p>
<p>I come from a very loving family - other family members (aunts and uncles) are living with their chidren. My heart really, really, REALLY goes out to the elderly who have no one. I am looking into some good local charities to shift some of my yearly charitable donation money to, to help the elderly. It is so sad…</p>
<p>Of course, I’m NOT being judgmental.These were just a few things we have seen. I’m coming away thinking nursing homes are a lucrative business for doctors. There are realities to deal with concerning care.I’m just wondering NEDAD ,what is your mother’s opinion about all this? Is her mind sharp?</p>
<p>This is a really tough subject. Institutional care certainly is not going to be of the quality and be as personalized as care at home when it is done well. It is not easy taking care of another person who need constant care at home, and often it just is not possible. My friend’s mother froze to death outside of the house when she slipped out one night while everyone was sleeping. She had Altzheimer’s but had not tried this before, and though she was under constant supervision during the day after burinig her forearm by turning on a gas burner with her arms right above it when someone left her alone in the family room watching tv, they did not have a night sentry. Doors were locked–she went out through the laundry room door and the sound was not audible to the rest of the house from there. She generally sleeps like a rock, but for some reason not that night. There comes a point when constant supervision is necessary, and these are adults,not infants, so unless you can afford 24 hour help, it is not going to be possible. Even those who can pay for someone for the 24 hour span, find that this sort of help is unreliable. They often do not show up. I know a little ventilator dependent boy who gets 24 hour nursing, but the mom and dad often have to take over when the nurse just does not get there. So, it become a true safety issue with some of the elderly when they become dangerous to themselves and others.</p>
<p>There is also the issue of the stress this kind of care causes for the rest of the family. Caregivers are at high risk for all kinds of stress related issues and age more rapidly. This is also an issue. Not just for adults who need care, but for children as well. The group of people who age the most rapidly are those who have children that need constant, special care. I don’t doubt that an elderly parent who needs this care will also age the caregiver. So it really is a big family decision as to what to do with an elderly person who needs constant care. There are also many elderly who are difficult and cause problems to households already in a state of crisis. Institutionalizing an elderly family member may well be the best solution among a batch of bad scenarios. We don’ t always get to pick good choices in life, and this is one of the choices most of us do not want to make. </p>
<p>I know in my personal situation, my MIL and I have not had a good relationship. She has really been detrimental in our family situation, and we had enough difficulties as it was with the blended kids that we took in. She did not help at all and actually caused problems, until we finally had to sit her down and tell her that we just could not deal with her at all unless some amends were made and rules followed. When she realized that she was going to be totally cut off from our family, she toed the line, for a while, and is now back to her usual nasty self. Now her health has deteriorated, and she needs help. She has alienated her neighbors and has no friends. Any other family members want nothing to do with her and she does not want to deal with them anyways. Why she wants us around is a total puzzle to me, as she agrees with little of how we live our lives and has nothing nice to say after the first few hours of any visit. But she always calls here, and she is now in a predicament where I see many visits to a hospital to get to the bottom of her symptoms. And she is not mobile enough to do this herself. Which means she needs to come here for a few weeks while I drive and accompany her to a good hospital. Then we need to deal with the diagnosis and treatment. Yes, she is a burden, but she is also an obligation. As far as making any plans about any kind of assisted living, she won’t hear of it. She does not want to leae her house, though it is falling down around her ears and she cannot care for it and won’t even hire a cleaning lady or a neighborhood kid to do a few simple things that would make things a little bit better. It’s her way or the highway. So we deal with her, issue by issue. H really can ill afford the time off right now and a storm front is expected to hit, but he is going down there to see what needs to be done, get a doctor to see her, fill her cabinets, clean up, run errands, look at the paperwork and we expect the doctor to tell her that she needs to get a series of tests which will involve driving to the hospital and/or various labs on a number of days. She will need a specialist. So most likely she will end up here but not on this trip, as she will refuse to come, suffer another week with no improvement or worsening, and then call for help,which will necessitate another trip to pick her up and bring her here which H should just do right now, but she is admanently opposed to coming. Such is the life.</p>
<p>I also appreciate this thread, although it is hard for me to respond to. The week after we moved to Germany (18 months ago) my mom had a valve replacement. This past summer, my dad was diagnosed with terminal colon cancer which is also in the liver. (So I understand, Mstee). Life has been one blow after another to them. Unfortunately, much of their care has fallen to my oldest sibling, who is a single mom with a tough job and two difficult children. I feel very guilty for not being there. Went home at Christmas with the knowledge that I may never see my dad again.</p>
<p>At Thanksgiving, my boys had dinner with their paternal grandparents. My F-I-L had a stroke and my S caught him. It was mild, thankfully, and he has had a full recovery. They called me (3 a.m. our time) to ask what to do!!! (ummm, hang up and get to the ER).</p>
<p>Sending my boys off to college at the same time as learning about Dad’s cancer… My mother says I’m at “that difficult age” where both my children and my parents are getting older… </p>
<p>Part of me hates being so far away. Yet, part of me acknowledges that I have the “easy” situation. The sibs that are closer have it much rougher.</p>
<p>Trying to not bore you with details, but these few sentences do not capture it! I know that many of you, with different details, still know what I mean.</p>
<p>Medication can now take care of some wandering problems. In the old days restraints were used. It wasn’t all that unusual to see folks with certain conditions, including kidney disease which make someone restless and hyperactive, tied to their bed. (with plenty of padding) Now medication can make Aunt Betty sleep all night.
Jamimom; good luck with your MIL. It is so kind of you to do what you can for her.</p>
<p>Oops, sorry -I didn’t even mean to REMOTELY imply that you were being judgmental! I didn’t think that AT ALL! I was just trying to forestall a FUTURE post from someone who had to put his or her parents into a nursing home, and might feel offended! Hope you understand! It had nothing to do with anything you said!</p>
<p>As for my mom’s mind - well, she’s out of surgery and in an inpatient rehab center, and it has only been a week, so we haven’t really talked yet. Up until the accident, her mind was <em>fairly</em> sharp, but there has been quite a bit of “drift” and forgetfulness lately (repeating the same stories, etc.). She will probably want to go back to her own apartment (not in my town. And she sold her house a few years ago) - not a good idea to my mind.</p>
<p>Nedad:</p>
<p>If your mom is in rehab, chances are she is given painkillers that make her less than fully lucid (been there myself). Give her time. Older people have a hard time adapting to new environments and new people, so I sympathize with her desire to get back to her own apartment. I really hope the home health aide can be of help to her.</p>
<p>Nedad,
Some of the home health aids that helped out after my mom’s (emergency) hip replacement surgery were wonderful. Often they are older women supplementing retirement income, and it works out just fine. Once you find a good person, make sure that agency know you want them, specifically. </p>
<p>As Marite says, you need to give your mom time to recover. After the hip surgery, it took my mom a while to come back, but come she did. One of the last books that she read and thoroughly enjoyed (at 89) was David Sedaris ‘One Day Me Talk Pretty’ (the part about the French class is wonderful). Reading and talking with her will help.</p>
<p>Sorry for the slightly-OT post here, but the correct title of David Sedaris’s work is “Me Talk Pretty One Day”. Not only is it a wonderful book, but you can purchase cassettes or CDs of Sedaris reading his work, which is worth every penny: his delivery is priceless.</p>
<p>Carry on. :)</p>
<p>mootmom - now you’ve done it. Another mini-hijack. Just wanted you to know I’m ready to be a charter member in any David Sedaris fan club you may be starting. I realize you may have to wait until partyadmissions season is over as you are so busy evaluating everyone’s credentials.</p>
<p>mootmom - thanks for the correction.<br>
jmmom - count me in for the fanclub, too.<br>
I don’t think its too off-topic to talk about humor in a thread about our sandwiched generation. Maintaining our humor is important to keeping us (a la bhg) and our elderly from being institutionalized before its the only possible option.</p>
<p>Jamimom, I’ve been reading your wonderful posts for a long time, and had no idea that you were dealing with so much in your family’s situation. It only makes you more amazing.</p>
<p>Marite - thanks for the medication comment. Very true - mom was delusional on one painkiller! I got it changed.</p>
<p>Ohio_mom - great book selection idea! Mom’s a lot better when she has something to read!</p>
<p>nedad -
make she has crosswords too, if she likes them. Keeps those neurons firing!</p>
<p>We spend countless hours looking for the right college “fit” for our children, but are torn about the options available for our parents.
so…to turn the page just a bit…
What do families in other countries do? Can we learn from some options?</p>
<p>Actually, with MIL, we are not dealing that much with it. She lives far enough away that we do not have that much to do with her. She is not a happy person, and does not like to visit us, will not have us visit her, just wants my H’s attention. He has really been the one shouldering this burden. We have tried many, many times to integrate her into our family, but she just did not want to do it. I think she really was disappointed with our lifestyle for many years, ashamed of where we lived, how we lived, the children’s foibles, our lack of money. Now that things are more the way she visualized it should be, she can’t seem to make the transition. My D is a spitting image of her when she (MIL) was a young woman, and though D was a favorite of hers, it was a problem that she did not care for some of my other children, particularly my niece, who was already such a wounded child when she came to us. Don’t get me wrong, at this point, MIL pretty much takes care of herself. Not well, but is not a constant problem. It’s just that the “crises” are coming closer in time, and some are medical in nature. She refused to get her knee replacements, and now it is too late–doubt she would have gone through the necessary therapy to make it work anyways. H is with her now, called and said he will bring her up here this weekend. I think the last snowstorm really scared her as she was homebound for a while, got a flu of sorts, and is still not well. She will need some tests to see why she is suffering from this gastritus for so long. But she has not been in any life threatening situations, and her family line lives into the 100’s, so my guess is that she will be with us for a long, long time.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I have two friends my age who are very ill that I want to visit, as neither have a good prognosis. One has recurrent, metastisized breast cancer, the other has congestive heart failure that is doing well. Both divorced women who raised their children and now are pretty much left alone. Really heartbreaking stories. Don’t have to be elderly to be in trouble this way. Wanted to go this month, but my friend who was going to meet me there is still on the audition trail with her son and won’t be free till the end of the month. A bunch of us have been taking a collection so that both of these women can live decently. They are on foodstamps. My MIL has the money to live well and pay for help, but chooses not to do so. It is all relative.</p>
<p>But it is inevitable that she will be needing some sort of intervention. And my mother, too, is getting older and more fragile. I think most of us are dealing with issues of this sort. I guess we all should be thinking about this for ourselves as well. For all of the things we have done for our children, we don’t want to burden them when we grow old. Hopefully the relationships will have been such that they will want to help and have part in our old age, but I also want to have things arranged so that they don’t have to deal with some of the issue we will have to with our parents. Also, it really isn’t kindness that is the motivator here. It is really the obligation. I just wish she were a more pleasant person to have around.</p>
<p>NEdad:</p>
<p>"there has been quite a bit of “drift” and forgetfulness lately (repeating the same stories, etc.). "</p>
<p>Umm, I’m only 40something and I repeat my stories (according to my kids!) Please don’t institutionalise me yet! :p</p>
<p>So, my FIL is 85, hada hip replaced a few years ago and still plays tennis 3x a week, he doescrosswords daily and will likely be fit and healthy to nearly 100, but MIL had a stroke in her 50’s…about 20 years ago and has simply gotten worse & worse & worse these past few years. Her hip was done about 2 years ago and her knee was replaced last year…I would say a stay in a trnasitional place with rehab is mandatory.</p>
<p>The house they’ve lived in for 40+ years is having more and more issues and it is absolutely pulling teeth to get them to face the need to repair things. I am so blessed that MIL has not driven since her hip was done, she never should ahve been driving anyway, but FIL drives everywhere, way too fast and won’t listen to any one.</p>
<p>What is it about our parents that causes them to not listen to any comments or advice we “kids” may offer? My DH heads to visit them 4-10x/year, depending upon how depressed MIL gets- she has become very needy of his time and efforts, thank God he is slef-employed and can take the time. I support him and encourgae him, as I think he will always be glad he did it, though it is tough to take so much time off of work and have all the travel expenses, too.</p>
<p>DH and I talk constantly about how to fix up their home, so that when they are finally ready to sell, they can get the most out of it. FIL cannot continue to do all the care for 200# MIL who is dead weight, she cannot do much for herself, barely can walk, has fallen on several occasions, but they still think they can do it themselves in their house. ARGH! Why do they think this way 
</p>
<p>Long term care is expensive. If any one is looking to buy a policy, I recommend First Penn Pacific/Lincoln Life Money Guard- it offers a life insurance benefit if you do not use the LTC bene, so you get a value one way or the other. :D</p>